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@Paulssurround this is one of the very view points we disagree.

When I find the time I‚Äėll do the same analysis in the WAM Linn ‚ÄěLinn Owners Club and Forum‚Äú.

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Looks like posting and viewing owners systems was very popular :) as was NAS set up. 

Edited by petecallaghan
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13 hours ago, 90sLinn said:

Surely dealers¬†should be a major influence.¬†¬†ūüėĬ†

At least for those lucky enough still having a good dealer closer than an 8-9 hour drive each way, making every dealer visit a two day project thus very rarely happening. 
So (for me), the just listen is normally not made at a dealer but at friends or more often at their friends.
So the omission probably more reflected my reality in addition to the fact that I am lower down the food chain, very rarely buying new Linn gear, certainly not new at Klimax level (apart from Renews) making those dealer visits even harder to motivate. Still their demos have resulted in occasional used gear purchases from them much later.

Distance to dealers nowadays makes e.g. forums a much bigger influence for creating that necessary interest to even consider spending a two day drive (or in my case more likely (pre-covid) asking friends knowing someone who happen to own the product for a listen.)

(Kind of a vicious circle if you ask me where increasing cost of demo products and necessary sales volumes  reduce the no of dealers outside larger cities).

No knock on you, I just found the omission amusing.  Speaking from the viewpoint of a dealer as well as a Linn consumer, I find that most people find out about Linn from a dealer.  Certainly the majority of our Linn customers, whether big or small in terms of systems, had either not heard of Linn or had not experienced it before coming into the store.  There have been various attempts by Linn to use advertising and followup to generate traffic in the store.  We have only had one or two potential customers sign up for a demo through that system and zero who actually came in.

I wouldn't go so far as the one dealer and say that the forums generate no sales, indeed I have gotten a number of LP12 customers from other states where there aren't Linn dealers due to my postings and reputation on the forums, even some I don't normally participate in like the Audiogon one.  And some of my customers will hear of an upgrade first from a forum post, but they are generally in the minority.  When the Karousel was announced I had over a dozen sold the first day, none from Linn announcements or the forum.  They happened because I printed out our database of LP12 customers and started calling all the customers who had pretty fully loaded tables.  All except one immediately ordered one after my assuring them I expected it to be an important upgrade.

You might notice in the postings above that most people on here have bought one or more Linn product without ever hearing them.  You can count me in that category as well.  The first Akiva shipped to the US was my personal unit.  The first Keel, Ekos SE and Trampolin 2 shipped to the US were my personal units.  The first Radikal and Urika shipped to North America were my personal units.  They wouldn't let me do that with the Kandid because of the heavily constrained supply on them when announced.  This tendency is because we find, or have found, Linn products to be very musical and also find it very unusual for them to make an upgrade that sin't an improvement.  (I find the same thing with Lejonklou electronics and wouldn't hesitate to install any upgrade Fredrik says is better.)  It is important to note that this is based on experience and trust.  The same thing goes for dealers.  A good dealer earns the trust of their customers by always providing well selected product, accurate advice and quality service.  Because of this their customers develop the same kind of loyalty that companies like Linn, Naim or Lejonklou (among several others) create.  They then often buy products without hearing them based on their knowledge that the dealer has not steered them wrong in the past and is unlikely to do so now.

I do understand that this relationship isn't available to everybody, and I do feel that is sad.  I had a customer who drove up from Tennessee week before last to have me put a Kandid on his Klimax LP12.  He had come up a few months ago to have me fit a Karousel.  I have another customer driving up from Texas to pick up the LP12 he shipped to me after having me send him the carton.  His LP12 I gutted installing a Karousel, Kore, Lingo 4, Trampolin 2, Akito arm cable and new cross brace, hinges, springs, grommets, nuts and washers.  He kept his excellent condition Ittok LVII and supplied a really well rebuilt Troika to complete the buildout.  Three more LP12s in August went to various customers in NY.  (I have driven out to customers as well but that is an expensive proposition so is mostly used by those either nearby or by two or three people wanting their LP12s worked on at the same time.)  So I am used to providing service to those looking for quality LP12 (or other turntable) setup.  I also sell some parts to those with no dealer close to install them (things like oil, springs and grommets, hinges, belts, etc., not items that require dealer install.).  Unfortunately, there are large parts of the US that don't have a Linn dealer nearby.  Makes me sometimes wonder if I shouldn't just get an RV and become a wandering LP12 technician?  But the time involved in raising my new puppy, Lily, is likely to put any such ideas on hold for at least a while. 

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20 minutes ago, ThomasOK said:

You might notice in the postings above that most people on here have bought one or more Linn product without ever hearing them.

15 minutes ago, ThomasOK said:

It is important to note that this is based on experience and trust.  The same thing goes for dealers.  A good dealer earns the trust of their customers by always providing well selected product, accurate advice and quality service. 

This has been my experience with Linn dealers. I believe Ivor said that the most important decision in hifi is selecting the dealer.

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1 hour ago, Ben Webster said:

@Paulssurround this is one of the very view points we disagree.

When I find the time I‚Äėll do the same analysis in the WAM Linn ‚ÄěLinn Owners Club and Forum‚Äú.

Thanks Ben, I would be interested in your analysis 

1 hour ago, petecallaghan said:

This is awesome Pete, and surprisingly, it is searchable

1 hour ago, petecallaghan said:

Looks like posting and viewing owners systems was very popular :) as was NAS set up. 

I note over 7.4 million views related to the What Are You Listening To thread, and over 6.6 million views of the Show Me Your Linn System thread

I am not sure how anybody can claim that the Linn Forum had no influence on people’s purchases for music and Hifi. 

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You‚Äėre counting the views (or maybe the posts) and not the threads.¬†

Edited by Ben Webster
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6 hours ago, Ben Webster said:

I think the problem was that

- 87% of the posts ¬†were related to tweaks for the ¬†Linn systems (which could be understand as ‚ÄěLinn without tweaks isn‚Äėt good‚Äú).

- 11% of the posts were related to upgrade questions (which could be understand as ‚ÄěI‚Äėm not satisfied with my existing Linn system).

- only 2% were information regarding using the existing system (without any tweaks)

I note a number of people spend a lot of time posting on the HiFi Wigwam. Could¬†that be understood as¬†they don‚Äôt like their existing stereo system? ¬† ūü§™

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5 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

This is awesome Pete, and surprisingly, it is searchable

Unfortunately it doesn't seem possible to read threads there...

Mick

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3 minutes ago, Ben Webster said:

You‚Äėre counting the views (or maybe the posts) and not the threads.¬†

Those 2 threads had a corresponding number of posts, and were by far the most popular topics on the forum.

‚ÄėI don‚Äôt see that reflected in your statistics? ¬† ūüėĚ

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1 minute ago, Paulssurround said:

I don‚Äôt see that reflected in your statistics? ¬† ūüėĚ

Paul, you‚Äėre right. I was referring to the threads.
 

And please take my figures not as exaKt numbers. But believe me: people (e. g. like some of my non-Linn friends, which I directed to the forum) had the impression,¬†that most Linn owners feel very¬†uncomfortable with their system. And they had also the impression you need a Linn dealer every six months to setup¬†your LP12 or you have to invite a genius from Canada to do the space optimization ūüėú

And this was the reason why Linn closed this forum. They were not happy with the first impression new potential customers had.

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