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Hey everyone. Interestingly this new Klimax DSM is similar to some of my earlier speculation. Basically a Select DSM in a super fancy case with a beefed up power supply and new DAC which I will want to hear at some point. As I have mentioned before, I am very happy with Katalyst and while I am sure Organik is a step forward it is hard to believe it will be that much better than the current KDSM, ADSM, or SDSM. 

That being said, it is a very interesting design approach for the DAC. Some what was was described sounds like a discrete R2R ladder DAC backed by the FPGA handling various processing duties. So perhaps not exactly a 1:1 comparison to the DirectStream. 

Initial Observations

  1. Definitely a SDSM design approach bit perhaps a tad wider and maybe deeper. Hard to tell.
  2. Major parts of the cost are the use of a big billet of aluminum to carve out the spots for the internal components. 
  3. The enclosure may have sonic benefits bit perhaps it is overly elaborate. 
  4. As a SDSM owner I like the dial and screen. This screen seems a bit wider than the SDSM. 
  5. Like the SDSM the screen appears to goes black when not in use with has worked well for me
  6. The inside seems like it is packed with more components than the SDSM which has more "open air" areas than what this new KDSM seems to have. 
  7. I also mentioned a beefed up clock which is clearly part of the design. In the video on the DAC architecture, it stated the signal paths being the same length so the clock signal reaches the "32 flip-flops" at the same time. Also of note is how each of these have their own power resavoir This is interesting stuff from a geek standpoint. I would be interesting to know more about this. These flip-flops may indicate at 32-bit processing resolution even though the spec sheet cited 24-bit 384 kHz input resolutions. Pure speculation on my part.
  8. If you look at the rear of the unit, the black and silver show two different configurations. Wonder what is part of a default configuration vs. what is optional.

Questions

  1. Who is this product aimed at considering it's price? While some of the enthusiasts who post here may be able to afford the new KDSM, I would think for most of us $39k for a streamer is a bit much.
  2. Why the significant price difference between the current ADSM and the new KDSM? I understand materials and R&D need to be recouped and I suppose only so many of these can be sold, but it is quite the jump in price. And unlike the LP12 which as a common platform to build off of to go from Majik to Klimax this seems to be an all or other proposition.
  3. Why not make a product like this modular like the LP12 where you upgrade internals to get to the next level?

Image 1: Taken from the video this seems like the same approach as the current KDSM took for component isolation.

kdsm3.jpg.d69abac91e36a27db2c3b3262df849ae.jpg

Image 2: This seems like the analog output stage. the glowing bits seems to be just part of the video demo. 

kdsm4.thumb.jpg.f5fc3b62f67fa0d73e11c84ac8689feb.jpg

What are your take aways?

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3 hours ago, macfan said:

What are your take aways?

1.  It'll sound better than anything they've made so far.

2.  I won't be able to afford one.

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I have enjoyed bein on the Linn Klimax upgrade journey over the past 10 years or so, with Dynamik upgrades, plus the various KDS/KDSM upgrades up to and including Katalyst, appreciating the sonic benefits that come with these upgrades every time.

Linn have now brought the upgrade journey to an end for the current KDSM box. I imagine that the new KDSM platform will be with us - with periodic upgrades - for many, many years to come. I don't especially want to call it a day.

So my questions are:

1. What will be the precise terms set out by Linn for an incentivised KDSM trade-in programme, now that the upgrades are at an end (I have a KDSM that is less than two years old) and

2. For how long will such a trade-in programme be made available by Linn (at the incentivised terms)?

Once I know this, and have had the chance to listen and compare, I will take an informed decision.

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Looking forward to seeing and hearing one ‘in the flesh’, notwithstanding I am very unlikely to buy one. I have seen a Selekt and rather liked it although in practice would rarely/never use the physical controls.

I think we should see this as positioning for the next 10-15 years.  Noticeably there is more flexibility on inputs/outputs than the outgoing model and the essential for today provision of Bluetooth and Wi-fi.

It ‘matches’ the new MDSM and Selekt.  I do wonder whether in the medium term Linn does away with the ADSM and rebrands/reboxes - where necessary - the other A components as Selekt.  Good, Better, Best has a long marketing track record...though Selektadorik is a bit of a mouthful 😏

They will have to keep their software up to scratch of course.  No one will be impressed if they drop £30k and get drop outs/ waiting for room etc 

There will no doubt be a market for these.  I was watching Top Gear last night (I know, I know, but it makes me laugh) and they blithely throw around £250k, £350k, £1m just for a car, so there are folk out there with silly money to burn.

Like many, I hope that in due course Organik percolates down the range at a reasonable (for Linn, of course) cost.

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58 minutes ago, rad1 said:

I have enjoyed bein on the Linn Klimax upgrade journey over the past 10 years or so, with Dynamik upgrades, plus the various KDS/KDSM upgrades up to and including Katalyst, appreciating the sonic benefits that come with these upgrades every time.

Linn have now brought the upgrade journey to an end for the current KDSM box. I imagine that the new KDSM platform will be with us - with periodic upgrades - for many, many years to come. I don't especially want to call it a day.

So my questions are:

1. What will be the precise terms set out by Linn for an incentivised KDSM trade-in programme, now that the upgrades are at an end (I have a KDSM that is less than two years old) and

2. For how long will such a trade-in programme be made available by Linn (at the incentivised terms)?

Once I know this, and have had the chance to listen and compare, I will take an informed decision.

Linn are offering  incentives to their dealers for existing dsm owners, they have left the final decision to the dealer.  The incentives have no end date as of the moment.  

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I suspect the pricing of these new products (as well as their design) is more an intentional effort to get some sales in the conspicuous consumption end of the market than a reflection of development cost or value.  That doesn’t particularly offend me if it allows Linn to prosper and continue to improve the gear that people at my less rarified level of hifi  geekery enjoy.

So, I’ll be waiting to see if an upgrade to Organik will eventually be offered for my Exaktbox-10.  Stepping up to a pair of Klimax Exaktboxes would be $39,000 (less whatever trade-in value I could get for my Katalyst Exaktbox-10), which I just can’t justify.  

I’ve also been hoping for new amplifiers, including a 5-channel amp (in one box) that would be a step up from the current Dynamik X200 series amps.  It’s always seemed strange to me that Linn sell 5-way speakers but don’t have 5-channel amps above the Majik level.  Given the advances in Class D amplification (especially Hypex and Purifi), I suspect one could now get non-Linn amps that would equal or exceed the current Dynamik Akurate level amplifiers for substantially less cost.  Most of them are pretty unattractive, though.

I guess the most rational upgrade for me at the moment would be from my 242s to Akubariks, since I already have a 10-channel Exakt/Katalyst system.  Maybe time for a chat with CJ...although large speakers are unfortunately less practical to ship overseas than electronic components...

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25 minutes ago, stuarts said:

I suspect the pricing of these new products (as well as their design) is more an intentional effort to get some sales in the conspicuous consumption end of the market than a reflection of development cost or value.  That doesn’t particularly offend me if it allows Linn to prosper and continue to improve the gear that people at my less rarified level of hifi  geekery enjoy.

So, I’ll be waiting to see if an upgrade to Organik will eventually be offered for my Exaktbox-10.  Stepping up to a pair of Klimax Exaktboxes would be $39,000 (less whatever trade-in value I could get for my Katalyst Exaktbox-10), which I just can’t justify.  

I’ve also been hoping for new amplifiers, including a 5-channel amp (in one box) that would be a step up from the current Dynamik X200 series amps.  It’s always seemed strange to me that Linn sell 5-way speakers but don’t have 5-channel amps above the Majik level.  Given the advances in Class D amplification (especially Hypex and Purifi), I suspect one could now get non-Linn amps that would equal or exceed the current Dynamik Akurate level amplifiers for substantially less cost.  Most of them are pretty unattractive, though.

I guess the most rational upgrade for me at the moment would be from my 242s to Akubariks, since I already have a 10-channel Exakt/Katalyst system.  Maybe time for a chat with CJ...although large speakers are unfortunately less practical to ship overseas than electronic components...

Palleted shipping to Japan of a pair of Akubariks about £700 with FedEx.  Not cheap but not stupid money.

CJ

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I not sure what the Linn made DAC really means as I am pretty sure that they don't have a chip fabrication plant. How is Organik different from Katalyst in that respect?

CJ

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Let's assume that Linn's right to place this as equivalent in importance to the CD12 and first Klimax DS, to figure out just what could make this a seminal launch.

What's new? 

The case - this looks more like evolution and styling than revolution 

The physical controls - already debuted on Selekt 

The display - again, evolution 

The physical architecture - again looks like an evolution from Selekt 

The analogue board - no idea how this differs, but most likely improvements that build on earlier designs 

The DAC - this *is* marketed as new 

The digital boards - no real evidence of revolution here 

So the only obvious candidate is the Organik DAC. Let's wait for listening tests to get an idea of how big a deal this is. The good news is that if it's the real revolution it is likely to make its way into all the product lines, and thus will have a big reach for Linn users. 

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More questions for Linn:

  • Where's the eject button?
  • What's a hub when it's at home?
  • Are capacitors inside it called hub caps?
  • Will it still play my old 78's?
  • Why does Linn still supply a crappy 50 pence mains cable with this £30K box?
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Interesting discussion so far..

Here’s a couple of thing I’d like to add; the Klimax Orgasmik Exaktbox will be an attractive and more reasonably priced option for existing Klimax users and Linn dealers will apply a pretty aggressive trade in opportunities for these folks. Hopefully we will see some nice used 2016 Klimax gear on the market soon.

In line with Linn first principles (source first) I am very curious to compare the Orgasmik DSM coupled with a modern an active DSM controlled speaker such as the D&D cardiods, a Genelec monitor or why not some lowly JBL308s with full blown Katalyst 305s or an Akubarik/dorik setup. Any of the former combo(s) should blow any current system out of the water for the pricing and marketing to pass my litmus test. As a comparison we all could relate to, yes,  I do think the Karousel indeed was such an upgrade.

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