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4 hours ago, uk030 said:

Compared to the top Naim streamer/preamp, someone finds the Organik a bargain....

You might argue that at £30k it’s quite reasonably priced compared with Naim products, since it includes a preamp and needs no additional power supplies. Compare it against the price of ND555 + CD555PSDR x 2 + NAC552DR, which I reckon is almost double the price, although with Naim, of course, you can build up to that system in steps, not having to buy it all at once.

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To put it in a slightly different way, $39,000 (the US price) is what I paid for my Tesla 3 SR+ - taxes included!  It looks better than either of the above and drives like nothing else.

But... does it drive your speakers?
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3 minutes ago, uk030 said:
55 minutes ago, ThomasOK said:
To put it in a slightly different way, $39,000 (the US price) is what I paid for my Tesla 3 SR+ - taxes included!  It looks better than either of the above and drives like nothing else.


But... does it drive your speakers?

As long as I load them in the back seat! 

And the Klimax Organik DSM doesn't drive most speakers, now does it?

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1 hour ago, Klingsor said:

This does not seem to be a R2R-type DAC, as one can conclude from the brief Linn Video about Organik technology. The FPGA processes oversampling and noise shaping and converts the PCM values into a bitstream. The actual converter seems to consist of 16 flip-flop switches, resulting in four bits of resolution in the actual conversion stage. This resembles the "Ring DAC" topology dCS  is using, a kind of sophisticated delta-sigma type of DAC.

Yes I think you are right. 

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53 minutes ago, 7ryder said:

The official word I have from my US Dealer is that there is no upgrade for the current KDSM, it is a trade-in program, which is actually pretty generous. The price they offered me for my KDSM is more than I can sell it used and the trade-in would make the price of the new KDSM about the same as the retail price of the model I'm trading in - $23K here in the states, which is much less than the $39K list price. Still, $20K+ is more than I'm interested in spending. 

Also, he said that he doesn't know how long this trade-in program will last.

So that's the official word.

However, someone on one of the Linn groups on Facebook said, in response to my info, that the current Klimax will be upgradable to Organik in 12-18 months, but this flies in the face of what my dealer said. And he didn't cite the source. 

But, thinking about it, it would make sense if they could upgrade the current Klimax, especially if Linn is truly going to sell the new Klimax DSM and old Klimax DSM as some have suggested here, because there is a HUGE price difference between the new KDSM and the other streamers.

However, the old Klimax DSM is no longer listed on the Linn website, so I question if they will continue to sell it and/or upgrade it. 

The trade in program in the US has a subsidy from Linn of $7500 reduction in the retail of the new KDSM.  (Note the dealer doesn't get $7500 but their normal profit percentage of that $7500, so both Linn and the dealer are subsidizing the trade-in.)  I believe this is £7000 in the UK but I'm not positive.  There is also a $4250 subsidy on the Klimax System Hub, same deal.  The dealer can offer more than that if they wish.  I have seen no time frame on these nor is one stated on the Trade Up form so it appears it will be ongoing.

While the current KDS/M are notable by their absence on the new Linn website, they are still on the price list.  Gilad told the dealers that the current KDS/M will continue on and will continue to be supported.  He mentioned that we could tell that to the customers who want to buy the traded in units.  He also said they hope to come out with Organik upgrades for them in about 12 to 18 months, while saying that isn't fixed as there are always unknowns in developing different implementations.  So the current units are around for now.  It will be interesting to see how long they will remain and if new Organik versions in the original (and obviously popular) Klimax case will be sold down the line.  The original Klimax System Hub is also still on the price list, as is a system with it and the new K350a with Organik DAC.  So it would be good to find out just what the differnce is between the two hubs other than the improved ADC and more connections, which don't apply to many customers.

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10 minutes ago, ThomasOK said:

The trade in program in the US has a subsidy from Linn of $7500 reduction in the retail of the new KDSM.  (Note the dealer doesn't get $7500 but their normal profit percentage of that $7500, so both Linn and the dealer are subsidizing the trade-in.)  I believe this is £7000 in the UK but I'm not positive.  There is also a $4250 subsidy on the Klimax System Hub, same deal.  The dealer can offer more than that if they wish.  I have seen no time frame on these nor is one stated on the Trade Up form so it appears it will be ongoing.

While the current KDS/M are notable by their absence on the new Linn website, they are still on the price list.  Gilad told the dealers that the current KDS/M will continue on and will continue to be supported.  He mentioned that we could tell that to the customers who want to buy the traded in units.  He also said they hope to come out with Organik upgrades for them in about 12 to 18 months, while saying that isn't fixed as there are always unknowns in developing different implementations.  So the current units are around for now.  It will be interesting to see how long they will remain and if new Organik versions in the original (and obviously popular) Klimax case will be sold down the line.  The original Klimax System Hub is also still on the price list, as is a system with it and the new K350a with Organik DAC.  So it would be good to find out just what the differnce is between the two hubs other than the improved ADC and more connections, which don't apply to many customers.

Thanks for the info and I'm glad to hear that there will be an upgrade path for those of us who own KDSMs or DS! Now that is something I'd be interested in!

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2 hours ago, Nestor Turton said:

Yes I think you are right. 

The technical details seem a bit different, now I had a closer look at what is available about Organik. There are not 16 but 32 flip-flop switches for each channel, so it may be 5 bit of resolution in the conversion. The dCS Ring DAC also has a 5 bit converter, but not the same topology as Organik.

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You're on the right track.  According to the diagram we were shown the Organik DAC takes a 24bit signal into the FPGA where it is oversampled 2048x and to 48 bits.  This is modulated into a 5 Bit PWM digital signal that is fed to the AFIR DAC handled by discrete components on the PCB.

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10 hours ago, Fazioli said:
  • Why does Linn still supply a crappy 50 pence mains cable with this £30K box?

Probably because here in Scotland our electricity is so pure (like the water that makes our Whisky) that a 10 pence cable would be good enough. I just use two strands of wet string shoved in my main socket and the sound is just amazing.

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5 hours ago, Klingsor said:

The technical details seem a bit different, now I had a closer look at what is available about Organik. There are not 16 but 32 flip-flop switches for each channel, so it may be 5 bit of resolution in the conversion. The dCS Ring DAC also has a 5 bit converter, but not the same topology as Organik.

The Chord Electronics Pulse Array DAC also has a 5 bit convertor. 

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On 27/03/2021 at 00:55, Elad Repooc said:

I'd expect that with the improved ADC technology it won't be too long before you see that in a new Urika/internal Exakt link phono stage. 

I don't think Linn has any intent to abandon further development with the LP12 - far from it in fact.

Indeed we should hear lots more about new ADC design. For many of us LP12 owners, this is equally important info. Analog signal from LP12 is digitalizing when enter new KDSM also and I assume there will be no analog bypass, so this ADC stage is critical. Following Linns’ “source first” philosophy and looking at the signal path, we can see ADC sits upstream, so it’s even more important than DAC... as any part of the quality information you lose upstream, you cannot restore downstream. That is the Linn mantra for many years. So we need the Organik ADC as well.

I have been very close to Radikal/Urika 2 jump, but now I will wait a bit, as Urika 2 obviously needs to be improved.

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39 minutes ago, NL. said:

I have been very close to Radikal/Urika 2 jump, but now I will wait a bit, as Urika 2 obviously needs to be improved.

From memory, it was claimed that the Urika II already has a better DAC than the current Klimax DSMs as it uses two DACs. Undoubtedly, we could see an Organik Urika (Urika III?) but probably with a price hike. My new Urika II is being fitted this week.

’troll

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28 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

From memory, it was claimed that the Urika II already has a better DAC than the current Klimax DSMs as it uses two DACs. Undoubtedly, we could see an Organik Urika (Urika III?) but probably with a price hike. My new Urika II is being fitted this week.

’troll

I put my trust in Linn, that they'll value there followers and offer Urika II Organic ADC upgrades, if/when such a thing has been developed. Clearly, Linn marketing has worked out (or needs to do this) a priority list for the next steps. Bringing a new ADC into Urika II is quite likely something for the 50th Anniversary of th LP12. Meanwhile, the focus will be on Organik upgrades for Klimax speakers, and Exaktboxes. That's my bet at least.

@NL. may have to wait a bit longer for an Organic Urika II. Btw, I don't think Linn will rename it to Urika III. Once the new boards have been designed, building the thing will be not utterly more expensive, than the curent model. Thus, I'd expect the new version to be a replacement, not an alternative offering.

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On 27/03/2021 at 14:38, Oscar P. said:

Compare it against the price of ND555 + CD555PSDR x 2 + NAC552DR,

(ND555 inc 555PS = £21k) + (NAC552DR = £21k) = £42k  

An extra 555PS brings this up to £50k - more if you add 5 layers of Fraim

if no analogue inputs required then you can buy Chord Electronics DAVE for £8k and, in my opinion, enjoy better sound quality. If, and it is only my opinion, you add Chord’s Blu 2 which includes the FPGA for upscaling, then the total package is £19k including the Ensemble stand and some decent cables and the performance is far more accurate and musical than the above Naim setup. Also you can play CDs if you want. You do need to add in a streamer or you are restricted to USB input. Chord does the 2Yu2Go for £1k, but I’m not over impressed with it (seemed buggy) and prefer my JRiver Mac setup.  

However, neither of the above offer Space Optimisation or an Exakt input for my LP12 and if you go for Linn’s AV option then you get far more versatility. So £30k is not unreasonable even if it is out of my league. I would be interested to hear how it compares with the Chord Choral setup rather than Naim. 

I’ve no doubt there are others that could be used for comparison, but my experience is limited to the three above.

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3 hours ago, Nestor Turton said:

(ND555 inc 555PS = £21k) + (NAC552DR = £21k) = £42k  

An extra 555PS brings this up to £50 - more if you add 5 layers of Fraim

if no analogue inputs required then you can buy Chord Electronics DAVE for £8k and, in my opinion, enjoy better sound quality. If, and it is only my opinion, you add Chord’s Blu 2 which includes the FPGA for upscaling, then the total package is £19k including the Ensemble stand and some decent cables and the performance is far more accurate and musical than the above Naim setup. Also you can play CDs if you want. You do need to add in a streamer or you are restricted to USB input. Chord does the 2Yu2Go one for £1k, but I’m not over impressed with it (seemed buggy) and prefer my JRiver Mac setup.  

However, neither of the above offer Space Optimisation or an Exakt input for my LP12 and if you go for Linn’s AV option then you get far more versatility. So £30k is not unreasonable even if it is out of my league. I would be interested to hear how it compares with the Chord Choral setup rather than Naim. 

I’ve no doubt there are others that could be used for comparison, but my experience is limited to the three above.

One of our Linn dealers has 4 customers that have Indicated they are likely to order the new Klimax Organik DSM, so there appears to be a strong interest already. The cost doesn’t seem to be an issue.

‘In addition, the Linn dealer is going to upgrade their Katalyst 350’s to Organik.

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