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2 hours ago, macfan said:
  1. ...
  2. ...
  3. The new KDSM looks to have analog phono inputs so the question would be did Linn design and implement a version of Organik as an ADC or use what an existing design. If they did create and Organik ADC then a Urika-I or external phono pre feeding these inputs could produce better results.

Well at least from the looks of it the ADC is not necessarily "Organik" but at least sophisticated...

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and-bytes/new-linn-klimax-dsm-with-organik-dac-r996/

(see the nudie pics of the upper PCB)

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2 hours ago, Kenilworth said:

I suspect that Akurate will be replaced with a box that has a knob on top and Organik inside, and bridge the now considerable price gap between Selekt and Klimax. It would  sell for around $20K.

For the Akurate DSM, this is a possibility. But if Linn is not changing the Klimax boxes of amps, and Exaktbox, why should they invest into new Akurate boxes. They could always repurpose the Renew boxes, though. They match the cookie boxes better, don't they

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The Selekt is rather close to the Akurate, price-wise, and can be quite expensive if fully equipped. The modular approach is what helps Linn guarantee additional sales. With a new  Organik DAC moule, the Select will certainly bypass the ADSM with Katalyst, while being in the same range ~10k but with the "better" modular case and the more modern usability (PINS, Dial, Display resolution).

And why should Linn bring the ADSM/4 up to Klimax Katalyst levels with a, say, 3k upgrade, if they can bring more people to the modern Selekt platform?

What I still don't quite get is why Linn don't make more of the Dial and the PIN buttons. From what I saw with a SDSM 2 years ago, the dial and the PIN buttons are nice but can't work wonders. Linn definitely needs to focus on usability of their software next, now that the engineers are hopefully no longer working 90% on the new DAC. I had the feeling that ORGANIK bound a lot of (if not nearly all) resources in R&D. SO/2 has last been updated... a full 16 months ago today. Davaar updates have been less than they used to, bringing mainly fixes for issues with the new Devices like SDSM or third-party imposed problems like the Tidal login saga. I hope Linn get back to engineering not just software for DACs...

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4 hours ago, macfan said:
  1. The Urika-II has the the analog to digital convert equivalent of the Katalyst DAC. In my case, send the Exakt signal to my SDSM and then the Katalyse DAC handles the ADC.

Urika II does the analog to digital conversion, than sends digital signal do DSP (SO2), and that digital signal goes to Katalyst DAC, either in DSM or in speakers. Katalyst DAC and ADC are two separate devices. 

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4 hours ago, macfan said:

If you use the Urika-II with the new Klimax DSM then the final output is handled by the Organic DAC. This is not a bad thing. Often in pro audio you will find ADC's and DAC's being intermixed.

I think this is not the case. Neither Katalyst nor Organic DACs are handling analog to digital conversion. ADC is done via separate devices. We have seen the photos of Organic DAC and ADC, someone have post it earlier, they have the same Artix 7 FPGA chip, made most probably by Xilinx... but definately those are two different devices.

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53 minutes ago, uk030 said:

Linn definitely needs to focus on usability of their software next, now that the engineers are hopefully no longer working 90% on the new DAC.

I agree 100%.  I’d not be too chuffed if I’d bought a new Klimax DSM and i still couldn’t select a music genre in Qobuz, or it was as quick to drop off/ disconnect from our home network as my Akurate is.  If there’s the slightest glitch in the network every other device, including iPads, phones, Amazon Echo, Google Chromecast etc., all reconnect seamlessly. The Linn doesn’t!  

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4 hours ago, macfan said:

The new KDSM looks to have analog phono inputs so the question would be did Linn design and implement a version of Organik as an ADC or use what an existing design. If they did create and Organik ADC then a Urika-I or external phono pre feeding these inputs could produce better results.

Definitely Linn has produced new "Organik class" ADC to match Organik DAC, do doubt about it.

As Urika 2 = Urika 1 + "Katalyst class" ADC, analog Urika 1 doesn't have ADC at all, its just an analog phonostage. So connected to the "Organic class" ADC within DSM, Urika 1 could sound better, as you suggested... but I think we shall have to wait and hear both and than to judge...

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1 hour ago, NL. said:

I think this is not the case. Neither Katalyst nor Organic DACs are handling analog to digital conversion. ADC is done via separate devices. We have seen the photos of Organic DAC and ADC, someone have post it earlier, they have the same Artix 7 FPGA chip, made most probably by Xilinx... but definately those are two different devices.

Looking at a zoomed in picture of the analog board I would hazard a guess that the two chips that are oriented at 45 degrees compared to the rest of the ICs are AKM ADCs but I could be completely wrong. Actual chip markings would confirm - I used to do some reverse engineering back in the day (all legal and above board).

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@NL. Thanks for the feedback. I was at lunch trying to type my response and follow several Teams channels at work. Some clarification on my part...

  1. I meant to say Analog Phono Signal -> Urika-II (AKM ADC of some sort) -> Exakt In ->Organik DAC -> Analog outs. Since I have a SDSM this would be Katalyst DAC -> Analog Out
  2. Also possible Analog Phono Signal -> Urika-II (AKM ADC of some sort) -> Exakt In -> Exakt Out -> Exakt Speakers
  3. Agree with "I think this is not the case. Neither Katalyst nor Organic DACs are handling analog to digital conversion. ADC is done via separate devices." My point being whatever is handling the ADC stage, it should ultimately benefit from the new Organik DAC architecture and analog output stage.
  4. If using a Urika-I it would be Urika-I analog out -> KDSM analog in -> Organik DAC Out (Or Exakt to aOrganik enabled component)

Agree we will want to hear the new KDSM.

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What I am finding quite odd is that Linn now don't make a passive speaker. This means that for someone buying a new system and it is all Linn then the £30,000 device is completely irrelevant! If they want a pretty box they would buy the £15,000 Klimax system hub, if they were fairly sensible they would buy the £2700 Akurate System Hub. Yes, spend money on Organik in the EXAKT Linn speakers or EXAKTbox with Organik for legacy Linn speakers but there is no current all Linn system in which the £30,000 KDSM can be used. 

CJ

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Richard,

I saw a video presentation with Gilad a few months ago, and he was asked that question.  His reply was that there many good passive speaker manufacturers out there catering for more styles and sizes that Linn could reasonably do given their size.  This would gel with the fact that the Selkt DSM was often demonstrated with speakers not of Linn manufacture.

They want to play at being big fish in small ponds with a small specialist range of speakers, rather than a small fish in big ponds competing with every other manufacturer trying to do the same thing.

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I agree Ian H, if you look at Hifi show coverage in Germany and the US for instance, there is no shortage of big expensive speakers that make 350s look like desktops. I imagine that Linn are not targeting this new range at all Linn systems at all. We know Linn’s strength lies in Aktiv, Exakt and Space Optimisation (I love the way my spell checker suggests “optimism” as I type that), but if the customer is into conspicuous consumption the Linn speakers don’t get a look in. 

A major benefit of the FPGA approach is the ability to improve the DAC performance by a firmware update. For that alone, it may make “Organik” a “sensible” upgrade as the hardware may remain current for much longer.

I hope this new range sells by the container load and pays for more R&D.

’troll

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17 hours ago, TooManyCatweazles said:

I think Linn is clever enough, not to limit their market reach to those people who go all-in on Linn. In contrast Exaktbox is a door opener to attract people with other amps / speaker preferences, and I don't see this to be abandoned. En large, Linn was never an advocate of walled gardens, so I'm quite optimistik in this respect.

Demise of Akurate wouldn't necessarily mean the end of an equivalent product range.

Selekt as modular Exaktbox, Exaktbox-i and power amplifiers makes a lot of sense.  One chassis, one look, many solutions.

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