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Back-up plan needed for music stored on a NAS...


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@SnapperMike Mike, many thanks for the iDrive link. Here in germany iDrive appears to a bit more expensive but still way cheaper than my present Synology C2 3TB backup for abt 24 Euro / 30 USD monthly. I read some reviews complaining about slow upload of iDrive. C2 is easy great but unfortunatley $$$.

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Many thanks to everyone who's offered help in my quest for a perfect backup. @JensA @TheFlash @jarvis @Solanum I'd like to say that I'm now delighted in having one 6TB external hard drive almost

Thanks @Solanum I really appreciate your kind help. Unfortunately I am not computer literate and to be honest wouldn't know where to begin with inputting code as you describe. For me shells are for ei

rsync Your NAS will be running linux (I use QNAP, but I am sure Synology is the same) and it is the simplest and best tool and does exactly what you want. Make sure ssh service is enabled in

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Good advice all around here! Thanks. Some nice solutions that I didn't do before. I discovered two weeks ago the worst nightmare had happened: my drive is totally broken. WD red in a qnap HD251+ btw. 

As I have the original cd's I still can restore from that, but the tagging afterward is a bitch. Last time I did this took more than a year. 

I was already thinking of an offsite backup solution. I bought a WD external "elements" for that. I have to think about the online solution, but I am tempted. 

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1 hour ago, dikki said:

Good advice all around here! Thanks. Some nice solutions that I didn't do before. I discovered two weeks ago the worst nightmare had happened: my drive is totally broken. WD red in a qnap HD251+ btw. 

As I have the original cd's I still can restore from that, but the tagging afterward is a bitch. Last time I did this took more than a year. 

I was already thinking of an offsite backup solution. I bought a WD external "elements" for that. I have to think about the online solution, but I am tempted. 

Sorry to hear of your recent data disaster @dikki

I think if that had happened to me without any backup, going forward I'd be just using the like of Tidal or Qobuz rather than all that hard work re-ripping and tagging all your cd's again. Maybe rip the hard to find stuff but for run of the mill music I'd rely on a streaming service.

As for the cloud storage solution...that all sounds like a good plan. It's one that I've just started with IDrive. However, I have almost 5TB of music to upload and after almost 48 hours of continual uploading I'm still only approaching 2%. At this rate it may take several weeks if not months to upload my full music collection! @JensA do you think Synology's C2 is any faster? I'm not sure if there's a way of checking the upload speed to their servers. At home I know I get download speeds of 100Mbps on Virgin Media cable and an upload speed of around 10Mbps.

In the next day or two my new WD 6TB external hard drive will arrive and I'll start to do a complete backup of my NAS to that using Synology's Hyper Backup programme as Jens suggests. The cloud storage option is just a total last resort backup, if not only one but both drives go pop in the NAS and my WD external hard drive backup fails too.

I'm sure that won't happen! :|

Mike.

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On 28/03/2021 at 19:43, chickenlogic said:

Yes, unlimited storage for one personal computer for $60.  Separate rates for business. 
 

I was a radio DJ for 9 years so I copied the station collection...

I also use and would recommend BackBlaze.

It took a.  l o n g  time to do the initial backup, music plus thousands of large digital image files, but once that was done it just works quietly in the background to update modified files or new ones.

SnapperMike - If you are testing it, make sure to restore some files. Perhaps move the originals to a different folder and then restore from online to the original location.

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2 hours ago, SnapperMike said:

@JensA do you think Synology's C2 is any faster? I'm not sure if there's a way of checking the upload speed to their servers.

@SnapperMike C2 is quite fast. I never measured it but las week I ripped 60 CD's into lossless FLAC in one day and even then the backup at 3 am in the morning was done within about an hour or so.

The quality is outstanding but has its price: 25 Euro monthly (for 3TB storage) is quite expensive although no comparism to the workload of ripping all CD's and vinyl again. My music library is about 1.6 TB but I am very close to the 3TB now as C" counts the total storage (including saved versions).

This being said I want to be sure that my Cloud backup is really exisiting in case  I should ever need it.
From what I can read Backblaze appears to be a bit more serious than iDrive but I would have to "backup" the media library somehow automatically to my iMac in order to ensure backup by Backblaze....
 

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3 hours ago, JensA said:

From what I can read Backblaze appears to be a bit more serious than iDrive but I would have to "backup" the media library somehow automatically to my iMac in order to ensure backup by Backblaze....

Thanks Jens. From what I've read, Backblaze can also read and backup the data on external drives that are connected to your computer. Not NAS drives unfortunately but it can backup connected external hard drives. Then I suppose if you can automatically copy your music to a connected hard drive it can then be backed up to the Backblaze cloud. 

At the moment I'm unable to test the upload speed of music using Backblaze as I only have that data on my NAS drives until my WD external drive arrives.

What I'm not sure about is this...If you have an external drive that is attached to the NAS directly to perform a Synology Hyper Backup, then is it also possible to have this drive connected to your computer as a connected external drive too? If so then the music you add to your NAS would then be backed up to the external drive by Hyper Backup and then automatically to the Backblaze cloud from the hard drive connected to your computer. I wonder if this would work?

Edited by SnapperMike
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6 hours ago, peter@57m said:

SnapperMike - If you are testing it, make sure to restore some files. Perhaps move the originals to a different folder and then restore from online to the original location.

Thanks @peter@57m I have tested both Backblaze and IDrive and both seem to work fine for restoring files. As a Mac user, I do prefer the interface look of Backblaze.

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1 hour ago, SnapperMike said:

What I'm not sure about is this...If you have an external drive that is attached to the NAS directly to perform a Synology Hyper Backup, then is it also possible to have this drive connected to your computer as a connected external drive too?

Mike, there is another Synology app called Synology Drive which might be able to fulfil this task. Will revert once I know more.

As an alternative to C2 Cloudbackup I am trying Dropbox now (price in Germany 20 Euros monthly for 3 TB).

Just started the backup and upload speed is about 15 GB per hour, so initial backup might take upto one week...

415726587_Bildschirmfoto2021-03-31um20_34_31.thumb.png.045861f23683642a9b79040649527068.png

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7 hours ago, JensA said:

@SnapperMike C2 is quite fast. I never measured it but las week I ripped 60 CD's into lossless FLAC in one day and even then the backup at 3 am in the morning was done within about an hour or so.

The quality is outstanding but has its price: 25 Euro monthly (for 3TB storage) is quite expensive although no comparism to the workload of ripping all CD's and vinyl again. My music library is about 1.6 TB but I am very close to the 3TB now as C" counts the total storage (including saved versions).

This being said I want to be sure that my Cloud backup is really exisiting in case  I should ever need it.
From what I can read Backblaze appears to be a bit more serious than iDrive but I would have to "backup" the media library somehow automatically to my iMac in order to ensure backup by Backblaze....
 

€25/month is more than I pay for my Tidal subscription. It’s €300/year and just one year’s fees buys you a beefy hard drive. I won’t be taking this subscription approach myself, I simply can’t make the business case stack up. Nowhere near.

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2 hours ago, JensA said:

Just started the backup and upload speed is about 15 GB per hour

Wow! Jens, you must have a much faster upload speed on your home network than the 10Mbps that I do. I'd be interested in how you get on with Dropbox.

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12 hours ago, SnapperMike said:

Wow! Jens, you must have a much faster upload speed on your home network than the 10Mbps that I do. I'd be interested in how you get on with Dropbox.

Dropbox Backup is now at abt 240 GB within the 1st 24 hours, i.e. closer to 10 GB/hour. Expect backup to take abt a week.
I have checked the various cloud backup solutions available here in Germany and get the impression that the going rate for a good quality cloud backup is about 10 Euro per month and TB.

The only cheaper solutions I have seen sofar are

a) Backblaze (still to be checked)

and (funny enough B|)

b) Microsoft One Drive / Microsoft Office 365 Family

As part of the Microsoft Office 365 subscription you will get 1 TB One Drive cloud space.
We had a family subscription for upto 6 members, i.e. 6 x 1 TB One Drive for 10 Euro/month until  a couple of weeks ago when I bought a 15 months Microsoft Office 365 family subscription for 55 Euro. i.e. less than 4 Euro/month. To be honest I was not even aware until yesterday about One DrivexD.
I have no clue if it's possible to use One Drive for storage of music library and how to overcome the 1 TB per user limit.


Besides expensive Cloud backups and "physical" backups (usually to USB HDD) there is another backup solution I have not tried yet:

Saving from a NAS to another remote (i.e. in another house or even city/country) NAS.

Unlike commercial cloud providers this solution would come at no cost (assuming flatrate online access and sufficient NAS HDD space available).
For saving within Synology NAS's this appears to be pretty easy: In addition to Hyper Backup another app called Hyper Backup Vault has to be installed.

Would be happy to try this with other members with their libriry stored on a Synology NAS...


 

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11 hours ago, JensA said:

Dropbox Backup is now at abt 240 GB within the 1st 24 hours, i.e. closer to 10 GB/hour. Expect backup to take abt a week.
I have checked the various cloud backup solutions available here in Germany and get the impression that the going rate for a good quality cloud backup is about 10 Euro per month and TB.

The only cheaper solutions I have seen sofar are

a) Backblaze (still to be checked)

and (funny enough B|)

b) Microsoft One Drive / Microsoft Office 365 Family

As part of the Microsoft Office 365 subscription you will get 1 TB One Drive cloud space.
We had a family subscription for upto 6 members, i.e. 6 x 1 TB One Drive for 10 Euro/month until  a couple of weeks ago when I bought a 15 months Microsoft Office 365 family subscription for 55 Euro. i.e. less than 4 Euro/month. To be honest I was not even aware until yesterday about One DrivexD.
I have no clue if it's possible to use One Drive for storage of music library and how to overcome the 1 TB per user limit.


Besides expensive Cloud backups and "physical" backups (usually to USB HDD) there is another backup solution I have not tried yet:

Saving from a NAS to another remote (i.e. in another house or even city/country) NAS.

Unlike commercial cloud providers this solution would come at no cost (assuming flatrate online access and sufficient NAS HDD space available).
For saving within Synology NAS's this appears to be pretty easy: In addition to Hyper Backup another app called Hyper Backup Vault has to be installed.

Would be happy to try this with other members with their libriry stored on a Synology NAS...


 

Good work Jens!

I think my upload speed is probably about half that of yours at best. I'm going to speak to my ISP and ask if they can increase it. Perhaps they can do that with the flick of a switch, I don't know.

That's interesting about saving music files to another Synology NAS owned by someone else. Unfortunately my 6TB WD red drives are currently at 83% filled. I suppose with all these backups it might be feasible to stop the Raid 1 mirroring of my two NAS drives but go for a sequential copying method instead between the two discs. However, I'm probably not likely to add too much more music to the NAS as I also stream from Qobuz.

I've decided to stick with IDrive for an extended test. It's less than $5 for the first year with 10TB of space. It also allows me to do cloud backups directly from the Synology NAS using the IDrive Synology Backup App. Also it allows backups from any connected external drives, in the same way as Backblaze.

Mike.

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A cunning plan is forming... I might go down the cheaper option of getting a bigger compact HD but let me run the cunning plan past you and seek your advice.

I currently have a DS212+ with 2 x WD Red 3TB in RAID 1 (mirrored). I could get a second Synology NAS, stick it in my stable (it's not really a stable, it has my wife's yoga room in it and has wifi) and use Hyper Backup Vault to maintain a remote (well, 100 metres away) backup. It's unlikely both buildings would go up in the same lightning strike or fire...

If I did this, it would make sense to put the more modern NAS in the house as my primary system. I could also install 2x 6TB drives in this new NAS to doublt my capacity. I could reformat my 3xTB drives in some other RAID to give me 6TB instead of 3TB storage, and use this for the backups.

Q1) Any obvious flaws?

Q2) Has anyone ever swapped out their drives for bigger ones? Was it straightforward? The instructions for swapping the same discs from one NAS to another seem clear but very long and you can imagine how scared I am of losing my precious data (or access to it).

Thanks

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37 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Q2) Has anyone ever swapped out their drives for bigger ones? Was it straightforward? The instructions for swapping the same discs from one NAS to another seem clear but very long and you can imagine how scared I am of losing my precious data (or access to it).

I have done this with my Synology 218j NAS. I replaced two 3TB WD Red drives with two 6TB WD Red's. I too was nervous before I began but it was amazingly simple and straight forward. I followed the instructions and it worked well. I remember firstly replacing one drive at a time and allowing the data to be copied from one of the 3TB drives to a new 6TB before replacing the second 3TB drive with the second 6TB. 

Your plan to add another NAS as a backup and keep it in a separate building sounds like good sense to me and I can't pick any holes in it. But then again, I'm no expert!

Mike.

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3 hours ago, SnapperMike said:

I have done this with my Synology 218j NAS. I replaced two 3TB WD Red drives with two 6TB WD Red's. I too was nervous before I began but it was amazingly simple and straight forward. I followed the instructions and it worked well. I remember firstly replacing one drive at a time and allowing the data to be copied from one of the 3TB drives to a new 6TB before replacing the second 3TB drive with the second 6TB. 

Your plan to add another NAS as a backup and keep it in a separate building sounds like good sense to me and I can't pick any holes in it. But then again, I'm no expert!

Mike.

Cheers Mike. My RAID choice means it’s an all-or-nothing thing rather than a step-by-step, but your own experience reassures me.

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