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Don't think I ever been so disinterested in a new Linn product or care less how it might sound.  Looks like a biscuit tin and the price is obscene. Anyone wasting that much on a box to make noise in a room has lost the plot.  KDSM was crazy enough price, they should have taken the chance to bring in a new product line that offered better sound, but at lower reset price point as the Klimax range had got out of hand.

My KDS will do me,  if I get chance still to upgrade the board to Katalyst that will do me, or perhaps I'll trade it for used version. That's me done with Linn HiFi. 

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I find it amusing to observe all of the complaints and criticism being leveled against Linn, and very little seeming support from anyone other than the usual suspects. With respect to the complai

Hi Interesting to watch and great to see some of my friends at Linn Products (haven't seen anyone for years). I had previously speculated (both on the old Linn forum and directly to other Linn ow

My neighbour has owned both Ferrari & McLaren. I did ask him if he was going to upgrade to a nice quiet electric car. Personally, I’d sooner own a top Linn system than an expensive car and can’t u

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Linn will of necessity filter this down to upgrade boards for current Klimax, then eventually Akurate and, perhaps finally, Majik. If they are counting on hoards of Klimax buyers, they are sadly mistaken.

The young, hip, obscene money crowd prove time and again at hi-go centres that they want big bright flashy boxes with LED enhancements to impress their friends. Giant speakers help. 
 

It makes financial sense for a “trickle down economy” for Organik products. 

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I find it amusing to observe all of the complaints and criticism being leveled against Linn, and very little seeming support from anyone other than the usual suspects.

With respect to the complaints about the price, it's as if some aren't aware of the plethora of obscenely expensive DACs available. 

DACs which do not have anywhere near the input/output flexibility, a bespoke on-board music player engine designed from the ground up, nor the amount of available control interface options.

There are Linn retailers which have complained to Linn that they don't make expensive enough equipment. Yes, I've seen and heard this complaint many times. They point out that clients perceive the price for a (then current) Klimax DSM to be too little to be worth seriously considering in lieu of any number of other brands - dCS, mBL, Naim, Esoteric, CH Precision, Soulution, MSB (have you ever listened to an MSB Select - $140K? I have. No comment, especially in this context) - the list goes on, and on. And so the retailers sell their clients the more expensive options, often based on nothing more than the client's perception of value in relation to the "cheaper" Linn.

So I think the folks leveling complaints based on the price aren't looking at the bigger picture here. If it sounds better than any of the above products, while also offering a feature set and options that none of the competition can (Space Optimisation, anyone?), then it will simply be the new benchmark for everyone else to meet in the market. 

As I've yet to hear it in comparison to anything else, I'll reserve judgement, but my guess is that in relation to the rest of the options I just listed (and the typical often additional associated costs for a music server/player to feed said DACs), this product will be perceived as a value. Especially given there are very few manufacturers with as long of a track record of customer support, available upgrades, and even free improvements (via software updates).

With respect to the complaints about the video, I'd simply like to ask the question - which other HiFi brands out there are going to such lengths to provide a complete product walk through? Are there some great examples of other companies doing such exceptional promotional videos? I mean, I've seen some here and there, but I think Linn should be commended here for this informative piece, not needlessly poked fun of just because one doesn't like the way the box looks or what Linn thinks it will fetch in the marketplace. 

An old adage comes to mind - "no good deed goes unpunished". 

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56 minutes ago, Eldarboy said:

Linn will of necessity filter this down to upgrade boards for current Klimax, then eventually Akurate and, perhaps finally, Majik. If they are counting on hoards of Klimax buyers, they are sadly mistaken.

The young, hip, obscene money crowd prove time and again at hi-go centres that they want big bright flashy boxes with LED enhancements to impress their friends. Giant speakers help. 
 

It makes financial sense for a “trickle down economy” for Organik products. 

There won't be any trickle down to the current Klimax DSM or DS because they can't shoehorn in the electronics, they are offering a good trade-up program though. 

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1 hour ago, Moomintroll said:

Excellent article. Thanks ‘troll

58 minutes ago, Eldarboy said:

Linn will of necessity filter this down to upgrade boards for current Klimax, then eventually Akurate and, perhaps finally, Majik.

It makes financial sense for a “trickle down economy” for Organik products. 

I hope so 

51 minutes ago, Elad Repooc said:

I find it amusing to observe all of the complaints and criticism being leveled against Linn, and very little seeming support from anyone other than the usual suspects.

With respect to the complaints about the price, it's as if some aren't aware of the plethora of obscenely expensive DACs available. 

DACs which do not have anywhere near the input/output flexibility, a bespoke on-board music player engine designed from the ground up, nor the amount of available control interface options.

There are Linn retailers which have complained to Linn that they don't make expensive enough equipment. Yes, I've seen and heard this complaint many times. They point out that clients perceive the price for a (then current) Klimax DSM to be too little to be worth seriously considering in lieu of any number of other brands - dCS, mBL, Naim, Esoteric, CH Precision, Soulution, MSB (have you ever listened to an MSB Select - $140K? I have. No comment, especially in this context) - the list goes on, and on. And so the retailers sell their clients the more expensive options, often based on nothing more than the client's perception of value in relation to the "cheaper" Linn.

So I think the folks leveling complaints based on the price aren't looking at the bigger picture here. If it sounds better than any of the above products, while also offering a feature set and options that none of the competition can (Space Optimisation, anyone?), then it will simply be the new benchmark for everyone else to meet in the market. 

As I've yet to hear it in comparison to anything else, I'll reserve judgement, but my guess is that in relation to the rest of the options I just listed (and the typical often additional associated costs for a music server/player to feed said DACs), this product will be perceived as a value. Especially given there are very few manufacturers with as long of a track record of customer support, available upgrades, and even free improvements (via software updates).

With respect to the complaints about the video, I'd simply like to ask the question - which other HiFi brands out there are going to such lengths to provide a complete product walk through? Are there some great examples of other companies doing such exceptional promotional videos? I mean, I've seen some here and there, but I think Linn should be commended here for this informative piece, not needlessly poked fun of just because one doesn't like the way the box looks or what Linn thinks it will fetch in the marketplace. 

An old adage comes to mind - "no good deed goes unpunished". 

Well said. Thank you

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1 hour ago, Eldarboy said:

Linn will of necessity filter this down to upgrade boards for current Klimax, then eventually Akurate and, perhaps finally, Majik. If they are counting on hoards of Klimax buyers, they are sadly mistaken.

The young, hip, obscene money crowd prove time and again at hi-go centres that they want big bright flashy boxes with LED enhancements to impress their friends. Giant speakers help. 
 

It makes financial sense for a “trickle down economy” for Organik products. 

It will be interesting to see what happens.  As it's an FPGA product there is zero cost to them to use the same code in a FPGA based Majik as in a Klimax.

So that begs the question as to whether the high cost of the Organik DAC is in the FPGA/code or the surrounding chips/power supplies etc.?

If the latter, then sure, they'll use versions of the FPGA and code in other products (not sure they will call it Organik though, or what is the selling point of the new monster price tag product?), if it is largely in their code development for the FPGA, then surely this will remain a 100% Klimax product and they will likely continue to use off-the-shelf DAC chips in Selekt and Majik (although they are still selling Akurate I would guess it's time has now come)?

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2 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

A review of the launch video more like. They haven't seen or heard it ("The front panel display is another item that I can't wait to see in person."), yet give it five stars!!!!!

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https://youtu.be/XqltfThkcDc

Launch video here. 

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As no one has mentioned it, I found it striking that near the end there was a slide only showing an MDSM/4, Selekt, and the new Klimax units. While maybe it was done to provide a showcase for the new casework design language, not showing an Akurate DSM is a decision, not an oversight. What that means will give many here much grist. 

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47 minutes ago, Jail4CEOs2 said:

As no one has mentioned it, I found it striking that near the end there was a slide only showing an MDSM/4, Selekt, and the new Klimax units. While maybe it was done to provide a showcase for the new casework design language, not showing an Akurate DSM is a decision, not an oversight. What that means will give many here much grist. 

Days are numbered at a guess, but maybe need to shift power amps, Radikal etc into new cases first? 

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42 minutes ago, Solanum said:

Days are numbered at a guess, but maybe need to shift power amps, Radikal etc into new cases first? 

All other klimax to remain in original case.

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8 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

The pricelist at the end is wrong. The Hub is cheaper. 🤪

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Sadly it looks like the end of the line for the Akurate range - unless there is a plan to launch  a new 'Akurate'  in the new house box style. I could live with a change to Select but to make it attractive I'd like to see the hub/exaktbox-i to give a one box solution (and at least the input flexibility of the ASH). The could also supply a blanking plate for the silly knob on the top! Downside of this approach for me - I don't really fancy trading in a brand new Akurate Radikal and Uphorik (which is unlikely to make the cut to the new case any way) just to keep the boxes matching.

I personally do think that there is a market space for 30K entertainment system hubs - it's not unusual to see this level of spend in say a basement conversion into a home cinema - would a Kistio launched for today be in the £25-£30K band? Yes, almost certainly. Having said that - I am certainly not the target audience.

It will be interesting to watch the developments. I was considering, as a replacement for the Kisto and 5125s, an ASH with surround and additional Exaktbox-i (s) to run the speakers but I'm now back reconsidering the options  - of which the stand out product is from Anthem.

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  • Jail4CEOs2 changed the title to Linn's new Organik DAC
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