Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi

Interesting to watch and great to see some of my friends at Linn Products (haven't seen anyone for years). I had previously speculated (both on the old Linn forum and directly to other Linn owners that I know) that the KDSM should really be built into a double-height box (something like a CD12 size, perhaps) to facilitate far better screening between the analogue and digital stages (which I've often suspected might be why the KDS sounded better than the KDSM) and also to facilitate additional AF transformers for sub users, so it was quite cool to see that's now happening. The reason I did not upgrade my own KDS to a KDSM was that I use the XLR's to drive 10 m of balanced cables to the front speakers and also long RCA's to drive a rear sub, and I wasn't entirely convinced about the idea of unbalancing of the XLRs (and particularly with that happening at the far end of long RCA cables) so it was also rather interesting to hear Linn specifically state - in that video - that in this new Klimax product, both the XLR and RCA could indeed be used simultaneously (with no degradation) but it was then even more interesting to note that despite the additional box space, this new KDS appears to still only contains two Lundahl transformers (I'd expected to see 4; two for the XLR and two for the RCA). I did have a quick look at the data sheet for the LL7401 transformer and to me it looks like that might not be the case, so it would be rather intriguing to hear more granular details on what they have done to eliminate the potential issues that occurred with the previous KDSM (okay, many products will have enough headroom to deal with the unbalancing of the XLR, but there are also situations where you will actually get mains hum when connecting both XLR interfaced speakers and a distant sub to the RCAs). Of course, perhaps the other two transformers are on the other side of the board (I must look again at a video still to see if I can see any evidence of any transformer-sized through board connections popping up on the visible side) or perhaps they have another cool solution; it would be absolutely fascinating to find out what they have done to address that potential problem?

Anyhow, though I would absolutely love to hear lots and lots more about the technical developments in this new unit, for myself it is all rather academic as at £30K, I am most certainly not a player (both in terms of the high price and my overall system topology; if I was to spend more cash on my 350A+345 system, likely I'd instead consider converting my 350As to Exakt - and getting myself an Exaptbox sub - and just using an ADSM as my Exakt source) but when you consider the bigger picture, there must be lots and lots of people with existing big and super-expensive non-Linn systems out there and these definitely will be potential customers for a 'price no object' ultimate sounding source+system controller for their existing systems (and not only would they get a stunning sounding DS and system controller, but they'd also get SO, which will likely also massively transform the sound of their existing high-end analogue systems) so I'll keep my fingers firmly crossed that this new product will find the ears of these potential new customers (who probably did think the old KDSM was too cheap to bother listening to) and that Linn sells loads and loads of them (whilst also making 95% as good sounding but many times more affordable products for the vast majority of us).

Briain

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 66
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I find it amusing to observe all of the complaints and criticism being leveled against Linn, and very little seeming support from anyone other than the usual suspects. With respect to the complai

Hi Interesting to watch and great to see some of my friends at Linn Products (haven't seen anyone for years). I had previously speculated (both on the old Linn forum and directly to other Linn ow

My neighbour has owned both Ferrari & McLaren. I did ask him if he was going to upgrade to a nice quiet electric car. Personally, I’d sooner own a top Linn system than an expensive car and can’t u

Posted Images

PS Yes, I agree with Dasher about there being potential customers for a £30K source + system controller (he posted as I was still typing the above and I don't see an edit button to add that to my text).

Incidentally, does anyone know if Linn still have AKM DACs in stock (https://www.akm.com/eu/en/about-us/news/information/20210122-information/) or are current DS's hard to get (I have a friend who's pondering a Katalyst Selekt or an ADSM)?

Sorry if this has been covered to death earlier on this forum but I haven't been here for a very long time. 

Briain

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Britain, nice to know you are OK. The edit button has gone walkabout - hopefully a temporary glitch.

’troll

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Moomintroll said:

“Britain” oh FFS...

’troll

Missing that edit feature are we?:D

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Briain said:

Sorry if this has been covered to death earlier on this forum but I haven't been here for a very long time. 

Briain

So, welcome back Briain. You have been missed!

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

While I respect the engineering approach and feel it will yield great results the unfortunate reality is that most of who would would appreciate and gain benefit from products like these simply can not afford them. I am not sure who this product aimed at, especially with the dramatic shift in how most people listen and to and consume music.

@ThomasOK cited his Tesla Model 3 costing the same. This is an interesting comparison in price but look what the Model 3 brings to the table. It provides transportation, it can provide safety and shelter, it can play and stream music from a variety of sources and can even help generate income by getting you to your place of employment. All in all a much better use of 39k.

While I have always loved my audio system and will continue with what I have, announcements like this are insulting to some degree and really push me away from the hobby and to reevaluate priorities. It says to the long time customers we do not want or need you any more. I predict they will sell fewer units than Ferrari or McLaren will sell in cars year over year. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, macfan said:

While I respect the engineering approach and feel it will yield great results the unfortunate reality is that most of who would would appreciate and gain benefit from products like these simply can not afford them. I am not sure who this product aimed at, especially with the dramatic shift in how most people listen and to and consume music.

@ThomasOK cited his Tesla Model 3 costing the same. This is an interesting comparison in price but look what the Model 3 brings to the table. It provides transportation, it can provide safety and shelter, it can play and stream music from a variety of sources and can even help generate income by getting you to your place of employment. All in all a much better use of 39k.

While I have always loved my audio system and will continue with what I have, announcements like this are insulting to some degree and really push me away from the hobby and to reevaluate priorities. It says to the long time customers we do not want or need you any more. I predict they will sell fewer units than Ferrari or McLaren will sell in cars year over year. 

Maybe it's an attempt by Linn to tap into the very high-end market that may have previously dismissed them as "too cheap" to be any good? I realise that this is an alien concept for most of us, but there is some seriously expensive gear out there; $100K turntables, etc. A random browse a while back chanced my upon a pair of Marten speakers for £350K. Presumably some people must be buying this stuff?

Another super-expensive speaker pair I saw made the claim that "it offers "an optional second way of experiencing music, which is independent of the drivers in the speaker itself and delivers music into the listener's brain, bypassing the ears""

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, 7ryder said:

There won't be any trickle down to the current Klimax DSM or DS because they can't shoehorn in the electronics, they are offering a good trade-up program though. 

This is incorrect.  Gilad stated that the current Klimax DS/M (now known as the 2016 version) will continue to be sold and supported. (For how long it will continue to be sold we don't know since it isn't featured on the new website, basically similar for the Akurate.)  He also said that we would see Organik DAC upgrades to the current Klimax units in hopefully 12 to 18 months and Selekt in about 24 months - subject to change if there are difficulties in adapting the tech to fit these units.  If you look at the DAC/output board shown in the video you will see it is not that big so should not be difficult to shoehorn into the existing cases, you just wont have all the input connections offered on the new Organik KDSM.

As to pricing, yes, I was having a little fun there.  But if you look around you will see there is no shortage of products chasing the 1% of people with all the money.  For many years there hasn't been a single component that you can't pay six figures for - as in over $100,000US (turntable, CD player, DAC, Preamp, Power amp, speaker - tonearms have only crossed $50K and cartridges peak closer to $20K, for now).  Note that a lot of this sounds horrible and is bought because it is bigger, flashier and/or more expensive than the neighbor's setup.

This is certain to be frustrating to those who have been trying to keep up with the top Linn gear from Lingo1, Kairn, Klout, Isobarik days, but we have seen these kind of major price shifts before.  Keltiks being twice as expensive as Isobariks and requiring 3 or 4 amps, CD12 over Karik, Klimax Solos over Klout, KK over Kairn, Keel over standard sub chassis (much complaining initially there), Ekos SE over Ekos 2, Radikal over Lingo 2/3, Artikulat 350s vs Keltiks, etc.  Even the original KDS was hugely expensive for a streaming solution.  So it is another in a long line of big price jumps.  

On the other hand, if those 1% people buy enough of these to defray the R&D costs and it allows current KDS/M owners to upgrade at a more reasonable price a year or so down the line, quite possibly with little perfromance loss compared to the CD12/SDSM mashup, that doesn't seem all bad.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Andyt916 said:

Maybe it's an attempt by Linn to tap into the very high-end market that may have previously dismissed them as "too cheap" to be any good? I realise that this is an alien concept for most of us, but there is some seriously expensive gear out there; $100K turntables, etc. A random browse a while back chanced my upon a pair of Marten speakers for £350K. Presumably some people must be buying this stuff?

Another super-expensive speaker pair I saw made the claim that "it offers "an optional second way of experiencing music, which is independent of the drivers in the speaker itself and delivers music into the listener's brain, bypassing the ears""

What do they do?  Stick probes in your brain?:shock:

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, ThomasOK said:

What do they do?  Stick probes in your brain?:shock:

Intriguing, isn't it?

Maybe something to do with the nuclear reactor technology?...

(4) High End Audio For The Passionates – Posts | Facebook

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I read a little more about it.  A monster $1.1million speaker by a company with no web page of their own, not known for speaker design, where it is said you have to wire them the money for the speakers and agree to accept them "As-Is".  Sounds highly reputable to me.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Briain said:

PS Yes, I agree with Dasher about there being potential customers for a £30K source + system controller (he posted as I was still typing the above and I don't see an edit button to add that to my text).

Incidentally, does anyone know if Linn still have AKM DACs in stock (https://www.akm.com/eu/en/about-us/news/information/20210122-information/) or are current DS's hard to get (I have a friend who's pondering a Katalyst Selekt or an ADSM)?

Sorry if this has been covered to death earlier on this forum but I haven't been here for a very long time. 

Briain

Great to see you back Briain. I hope you are coping well and that mum is ok. You're doing a sterling job there.

Catch up soon, Mike.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ThomasOK said:

This is incorrect.  Gilad stated that the current Klimax DS/M (now known as the 2016 version) will continue to be sold and supported. (For how long it will continue to be sold we don't know since it isn't featured on the new website, basically similar for the Akurate.)  He also said that we would see Organik DAC upgrades to the current Klimax units in hopefully 12 to 18 months and Selekt in about 24 months - subject to change if there are difficulties in adapting the tech to fit these units.  If you look at the DAC/output board shown in the video you will see it is not that big so should not be difficult to shoehorn into the existing cases, you just wont have all the input connections offered on the new Organik KDSM.

As to pricing, yes, I was having a little fun there.  But if you look around you will see there is no shortage of products chasing the 1% of people with all the money.  For many years there hasn't been a single component that you can't pay six figures for - as in over $100,000US (turntable, CD player, DAC, Preamp, Power amp, speaker - tonearms have only crossed $50K and cartridges peak closer to $20K, for now).  Note that a lot of this sounds horrible and is bought because it is bigger, flashier and/or more expensive than the neighbor's setup.

This is certain to be frustrating to those who have been trying to keep up with the top Linn gear from Lingo1, Kairn, Klout, Isobarik days, but we have seen these kind of major price shifts before.  Keltiks being twice as expensive as Isobariks and requiring 3 or 4 amps, CD12 over Karik, Klimax Solos over Klout, KK over Kairn, Keel over standard sub chassis (much complaining initially there), Ekos SE over Ekos 2, Radikal over Lingo 2/3, Artikulat 350s vs Keltiks, etc.  Even the original KDS was hugely expensive for a streaming solution.  So it is another in a long line of big price jumps.  

On the other hand, if those 1% people buy enough of these to defray the R&D costs and it allows current KDS/M owners to upgrade at a more reasonable price a year or so down the line, quite possibly with little perfromance loss compared to the CD12/SDSM mashup, that doesn't seem all bad.

I visited one of my Linn dealers in Vancouver today.

‘The owner has already had 4 customers indicating interest to placing orders for the new Klimax Organik DSM.

‘In addition, the dealership themselves are planning on upgrading their Klimax Katalyst 350’s to Organik 350’s

I had the opportunity to hear the recently upgraded Katalyst 350’s today, and they were sounding mighty fine. I can’t imagine what they will sound like if the Organik upgrade is done as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Briain said:

PS Yes, I agree with Dasher about there being potential customers for a £30K source + system controller (he posted as I was still typing the above and I don't see an edit button to add that to my text).

Incidentally, does anyone know if Linn still have AKM DACs in stock (https://www.akm.com/eu/en/about-us/news/information/20210122-information/) or are current DS's hard to get (I have a friend who's pondering a Katalyst Selekt or an ADSM)?

Sorry if this has been covered to death earlier on this forum but I haven't been here for a very long time. 

Briain

Yes the new web site now markets under speakers and the akurate is part of the Akubarik link

so presume for a while

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Jail4CEOs2 changed the title to Linn's new Organik DAC
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...