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On 20/10/2021 at 19:47, Elad Repooc said:

I am curious about all of this.

Did you or any of your friends happen to document the different components and configurations which were made and changed during each listening session? If so, I'd be interested in reading about it. I haven't delved deep enough into the older threads to remember.

What I am most curious about is the variety and type of switches which were compared against and how things were connected to the network overall, as well as configured.

Thanks for your interest Elad,

We did not document the different components and configurations, as all of us had just one switch with our music streaming as part of the network. We worked through each new potential component with listening sessions at each person’s home then discussed our observations and then more listening. The results were extremely impressive.

We all started out with Netgear 108T switches, with Friwo MPP15 SMPS medical grade power supplies, a couple of years ago, and did not think we needed to do anything else to our networks. But I had a 28 port Cisco which had its own built in AC power supply, in my system for a while as well. However, that was all about to change when we started exploring new options available on the market.

One of the guys bought a Bonn N8 switch with it’s own Bonn, medical grade SMPS power supply, so we all went over for a listen. We visited each other’s homes to audition the Bonn in our individual systems and we found enough of an improvement to justify the cost to switch to the Bonn N8.

‘Then about a 8-10 months later, the same individual bought the Bonn Forester F1 power supply which we auditioned in his system, before we made the rounds and all tried in our individual systems. The improvements in sound quality were more than significant, so we all ended up buying the Forester F1 power supply. Results were astonishing., as it removed so much noise and the digital edge to the music streaming. 

A month or 2 after that the same individual bought a second Bonn N8 switch to help further isolate the audio streaming from the busy network traffic. The improvements in sound quality were almost as good as the Forester F1 power supply, and together, the second switch with the Forester brought the music listening experience to a whole new level of enjoyment, I did not know was possible.

‘Since then, we have also upgraded our Ethernet cables to Bonn C7 cables and upgraded DC cables from the Forester F1 to each switch,  to have further gains. 

It had been an astonishing upgrade and well worth the money 

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Thanks @Paulssurround. I think it's clear there is something unique going on with the switch and power supplies. Out of curiosity I also went to check out the C7 cables and I came across a couple little tidbits which stood out to me:

Quote

Thick gold plated shielded RJ-45 connector provides extra protection preventing from being affected by other signal.

Yet, they claim the C7 is a "category 7" cable, which does not use the standard RJ45 connector (aka 8P8C), but rather a GG45/ARJ45 connector, or an alternative connector called a TERA. So, it may be shielded wire, aka F/STP, S/STP, SF/FTP but if it's terminated with a RJ45 connection (shielded and gold-plated though it may be) it's not technically a CAT7. 

This one though, seriously has me puzzled:

Quote
Dedicated Grounding Wire for Better Shielding Performance
Besides four pairs of twisted copper wire are separated shielded, C7 series also equipped with a dedicated grounding wire inside and gets better grounding signal transmission and, as a result, better shielding performance. Also this grounding wire can strength the cable and prevent from being broken when you pull it.

Any owner of a Bonn C7 cable willing to cut one in two and show us some images of this dedicated grounding wire and where it might be located relative to the rest of the conductors?

Because if that is the case (it has an unshielded drain wire connected to an internal foil shield) then the wire is likely an F/UTP with drain wire, which would meet the CAT6A spec. Or, it could be an F/STP with drain wire. Either way, it doesn't really matter as it seems to me that this is actually a CAT6A cable after looking into it.

Not uncommon to find companies incorrectly labeling and categorizing wire these days - one must be careful because most of it is based on marketing hype, yet again, in the sense that one would think that somehow CAT7 is superior to CAT6A for example, when the fact is CAT7 has more or less been replaced with CAT6A and most cabling marketed as CAT7 does not meet the spec. For it to be CAT7 (which was never accepted by the TIA/EIA by the way), and meet the CAT7 spec, the proper connectors must be fitted to the proper type of wire, and the proper receiving sockets must be used by the interconnected equipment. Otherwise, it's just anyone's guess what sort of specifications the cable actually has. If it sounds better to you, great, but also realize that how this stuff is being marketed most of the time it's just a bunch of numbers being used to bamboozle you.

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The more I listen to Klimax DSM/3 (with the optical ethernet), the more I'm impressed with its SQ, its performance. I literally listen to it day and night, never in my life, I do not feel tired listening to music for nearly a  whole day.

This evening, some tracks really draw my deep attention -  Jennifer Warnes “Lights of Louisiane” with it’s acoustic double bass can proudly pride itself on bass performance, Chris Whitley’s “Phonecall from Levenworth” sounds really very intimate and I can see clearly  he’s there playing his national guitar, the fingers and bottle tube on the strings, Michael Franks “Amazon” from the album Passion Fruit displays the deep layering of music  and what it means by pace, rhythm and dynamics.

Edited by cspgqqt
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21 hours ago, Elad Repooc said:

Thanks @Paulssurround. I think it's clear there is something unique going on with the switch and power supplies. Out of curiosity I also went to check out the C7 cables and I came across a couple little tidbits which stood out to me:

Yet, they claim the C7 is a "category 7" cable, which does not use the standard RJ45 connector (aka 8P8C), but rather a GG45/ARJ45 connector, or an alternative connector called a TERA. So, it may be shielded wire, aka F/STP, S/STP, SF/FTP but if it's terminated with a RJ45 connection (shielded and gold-plated though it may be) it's not technically a CAT7. 

This one though, seriously has me puzzled:

Any owner of a Bonn C7 cable willing to cut one in two and show us some images of this dedicated grounding wire and where it might be located relative to the rest of the conductors?

Because if that is the case (it has an unshielded drain wire connected to an internal foil shield) then the wire is likely an F/UTP with drain wire, which would meet the CAT6A spec. Or, it could be an F/STP with drain wire. Either way, it doesn't really matter as it seems to me that this is actually a CAT6A cable after looking into it.

Not uncommon to find companies incorrectly labeling and categorizing wire these days - one must be careful because most of it is based on marketing hype, yet again, in the sense that one would think that somehow CAT7 is superior to CAT6A for example, when the fact is CAT7 has more or less been replaced with CAT6A and most cabling marketed as CAT7 does not meet the spec. For it to be CAT7 (which was never accepted by the TIA/EIA by the way), and meet the CAT7 spec, the proper connectors must be fitted to the proper type of wire, and the proper receiving sockets must be used by the interconnected equipment. Otherwise, it's just anyone's guess what sort of specifications the cable actually has. If it sounds better to you, great, but also realize that how this stuff is being marketed most of the time it's just a bunch of numbers being used to bamboozle you.

Good job of doing some research. 😊

‘I can’t speak for my buddies, but it was of no consideration for me whether the Silent Angel C7 Ethernet cables were Cat 5/6/7 or 8. They just sound so good, and an obvious step up, I didn’t care.

‘The Bonn N8 Silent Angel switch comes with a 14 inch Silent Angel Ethernet cable included, and I didn’t even bother to install it until the distributor in Canada for Bonn stated that the Bonn C7 cable sounds better than an Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable, which now retails for more than $2000. The Silent Angel C7 retails for $100 each, so 1/20th of the cost.

‘One of the guys owned some Audioquest Diamonds, so we did a comparison with the Silent Angel C7 Ethernet  cables. I would say that the sound quality was close for both cables, with the Audioquest Diamonds providing slightly more detail. The comparison was so close, my friend sold both his Audioquest Diamonds and replaced them with the Silent Angel C7 cables. The sale of his Audioquest Diamonds paid for his Bonn N8 switches, the Forester F1 power supply and his Silent Angel C7 cables

My previous Ethernet cables were Certicable Cat8 cables that do meet the Cat8 spec, measured and certified by Certicable.

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10 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

My previous Ethernet cables were Certicable Cat8 cables that do meet the Cat8 spec, measured and certified by Certicable.

The improvement you heard may have resulted from switching from CAT8, which you know Linn do not recommend for Exaktlink use, to what @Elad Repooctells us is CAT6/a, which is recommended.

Just a thought.

’troll

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On 23/10/2021 at 08:14, cspgqqt said:

The more I listen to Klimax DSM/3 (with the optical ethernet), the more I'm impressed with its SQ, its performance. I literally listen to it day and night, never in my life, I do not feel tired listening to music for nearly a  whole day.

This evening, some tracks really draw my deep attention -  Jennifer Warnes “Lights of Louisiane” with it’s acoustic double bass can proudly pride itself on bass performance, Chris Whitley’s “Phonecall from Levenworth” sounds really very intimate and I can see clearly  he’s there playing his national guitar, the fingers and bottle tube on the strings, Michael Franks “Amazon” from the album Passion Fruit displays the deep layering of music  and what it means by pace, rhythm and dynamics.

Just for a bit of fun, can I suggest Meghan Trainor’s “All About the Bass”? I hadn’t even realised it was an upright bass until I played it on the KDSM/3.

’troll

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11 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

The improvement you heard may have resulted from switching from CAT8, which you know Linn do not recommend for Exaktlink use, to what @Elad Repooctells us is CAT6/a, which is recommended.

Just a thought.

’troll

I think you wasted your career by not working as a detective for Scotland Yard 😊

‘We tried the new Silent Angel C7 Ethernet cables in 6 different people’s Linn systems, and none of the other guys were using Certicable Cat8, except me. The only logical conclusion is that the Silent Angel Ethernet cables sounded better, and this was agreed upon by all parties, that now have them in their Linn system

We visited each other’s homes for the auditions and it was universally accepted that the Silent Angels sounded the best, with the exception of the owner that had Audioquest Diamonds. As mentioned, the sound signature was similar enough for the Audioquest Diamonds and the Silent Angel Ethernet cables that one of the guys sold his Audioquest Diamonds.

‘I thought the Certicable Cat8 cables sounded very good in my system, and well worth the money, but then something better came along. I had no issues with compatibility of the Cat8 cables in my system, with the network or the Exaktlink 

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8 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

I think you wasted your career by not working as a detective for Scotland Yard

And I think I’ll just put you back on my list of Ignored Users and not waste my time trying to make constructive comment where it’s obviously not wanted.

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On 23/10/2021 at 00:14, cspgqqt said:

The more I listen to Klimax DSM/3 (with the optical ethernet), the more I'm impressed with its SQ, its performance. I literally listen to it day and night, never in my life, I do not feel tired listening to music for nearly a  whole day.

Same experience here, day and night. This thing is truly amazing. Best upgrade ever!

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2 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

And I think I’ll just put you back on my list of Ignored Users and not waste my time trying to make constructive comment where it’s obviously not wanted.

My reference to you being a detective was a complement to you, thus the smiley 

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