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mains cable/kettle lead. Make any difference in sound quality?


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There are things being mixed up here as well.

In many situations (clinical for example) nobody would ever use any connectors or cables that were not supplied with the specific equipment in general. There are obvious potential consequences. However, that doesn't necessarily imply that equipment is supplied with normal kettle leads.

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To save another 17 pages, let me cover the basics: - If you can't hear the difference a good Mains Cable can make....either your hearing is impaired, or your system isn't resolving enough. -

So here we are then not talking about mains cables. Well while we're not on the subject. Back home just 15 mins away from Nick's and I am listening to my system. I have Tidal playing CD (not MQA)

You might be right. @TheFlash has just called round and stood in the cold outside the window to my listening room whilst I played my system (including the Chord Dave).   Nigel said that my syst

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42 minutes ago, Blzebub said:

Nope.

The placebo effect is so strong in humans that we have to include placebos in drug trials. Just being told by a doctor that the pills will make you better, makes people better, even if there is no active drug in the pills.

You could argue that the placebo worked because it was successful. I do hope that comment doesn’t herald the start of many pages of discussion about the methodology of clinical trials…

You don’t believe it can make any difference (bias) so you conclude that it’s a placebo. There are other possibilities. It doesn’t actually have to be one or the other – it could genuinely improve things for some people in their systems for their ears and for others it might well be placebo, which is no less enjoyable for them of course. xD

There’s only one way to find out but I acknowledge that’s not for everyone, for a number of reasons.

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17 minutes ago, rdale said:

There is no audio equivalent of taking a fake pill which you believe will make you better, actually having a measurable effect in making you better.
 

When used in an audio context it is just a cheap put down, and equivalent to saying that even experienced listeners imagine there are differences which don’t exist because they always expect them to exist.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02208-0

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23 minutes ago, tuga said:

not sure about cables but the vibration control is of massive importance.

I agree with that.

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21 minutes ago, rabski said:

It depends on who is (mis)using the term.

Placebo effect, however, can be applied to numerous situations with exactly the same implied meaning: people perceiving an effect when in reality, nothing has changed.

Isn’t the medical example given where something actually has changed?

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The rearly strange thing is that you can tell patients it's a placebo and it still works. Regards Andrew 

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I use Furutech FI-1363G mains plugs and Belden 19364 cable into MK Duraplug FC4234BLK 4 way mains distribution blocks.


The cable run from the wall is about 3 meters so I thought why not use decent cable as I had to buy some anyway, the Belden 19364 was £6 per meter and I used two runs, that’s two mains plugs, two cable runs into two Duraplug FC4234BLK 4 way mains distribution blocks. Inside the distribution blocks, the sockets are all solid copper rail.
 

The whole set up to provide eight sockets from two mains sockets was £258 but bear in mind that the majority of that cost was the Furutech mains plugs that were £90 each. The only reason I used these was that they were the only plugs I could find that would accept the Belden cable at the right angle due to the fact that the sockets are behind wood panelling. (See picture). 
 

From there, the standard mains leads that came with the (Cyrus) units. The only thing I’ve done with those is shorten them so they are no longer that needed. 
 

Recently I bought a MS HD Power mains plug as I have some Belden cable spare and this is reasonable at £35 compared to the Furutech and would also fit under my bottom shelf. I’m toying with making up a new lead for the CDi perhaps. I was originally thinking about replacing the Denon lead which has a figure eight connector so I bought one (Viborg VF508, similar to a Furutech design, £22 inc. postage) from Poland (AVcorp). It’s on the way to me now but since ordering I’ve settled on a Cyrus Streamer so it will be redundant. I might order a 3 pin IEC connector from the same company once I’ve given the one on the way a once over. It’s not a Furutech (it’s a Viborg).
 

I don’t believe there’s much difference with mains products so won’t be upgrading this set up any more. I think it’s probably a waste compared to spending on good components.
 

My thinking is that when folk have reached what they consider the top with seriously high end stuff- there’s nowhere else to go. As the guitarist from Spinal Tap said: ...”where can you go from there?”

Having said all that, the meaty cables and connections do look cool. I’m thinking of putting some of that mesh stuff on the cable I make up.

2E41B497-FC21-4FAF-984E-D127D03D1E0F.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

Isn’t the medical example given where something actually has changed?

Medically - there are measurable beneficial changes....and in some cases, those changes happen, even when the person knows it's a placebo (I see andrew s has said the same)..

Edited by CnoEvil
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19 minutes ago, rabski said:

In many situations (clinical for example) nobody would ever use any connectors or cables that were not supplied with the specific equipment in general. There are obvious potential consequences. However, that doesn't necessarily imply that equipment is supplied with normal kettle leads.

It really is not an issue, even in ICU, where mains kettle leads were not necessarily the same ones supplied, i.e. they were removable and almost certainly got mixed-up over time.

I'm guessing Hi-Fi companies are aware of aftermarket mains leads, do they try different ones in their R&D, and if they do, is there a reason why they wouldn't supply "the best" possible one for their equipment? If you have the knowhow to design an amplifier, do you not also have the knowhow to design and make a cable?

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1 minute ago, CnoEvil said:

Medically - there are measurable beneficial changes....and in some cases, those changes happen, even when the person knows it's a placebo.

In which case the term isn’t really applicable in this context.

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5 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

Isn’t the medical example given where something actually has changed?

You've taken a chalk pill.

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1 minute ago, Blzebub said:

You've taken a chalk pill.

The placebo effect describes a situation where something actually has changed, whereas you are using the term to claim that there has not been a change.

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1 minute ago, Blzebub said:

I'm guessing Hi-Fi companies are aware of aftermarket mains leads, do they try different ones in their R&D, and if they do, is there a reason why they wouldn't supply "the best" possible one for their equipment? If you have the knowhow to design an amplifier, do you not also have the knowhow to design and make a cable?

IMV. Most HiFi companies provide a fairly basic Mains Cable for 2 reasons:

- People who strongly believe that they don't make a difference, will resent paying the extra and may even avoid the brand as it is indulging in foo.

- People who do believe in Mains Cables often have their preferred brands and have very different budgets.

So by suppling a simple Kettle lead, it keeps everyone happy - as believers will go their own way; and non believers don't feel ripped off.

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17 minutes ago, Blzebub said:

Congratulations on being able to paste web links, but without any sort of qualifying comment you aren’t making any sort of point.
 

What does the above article have to say about how experienced listeners always and unavoidably deceive themselves when making listening comparisons, as implied by people who throw around the term ‘placebo effect’ with abandon in these sort of discussions?

Edited by rdale
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The placebo effect describes a situation where the results change in response to a null.

As usual, we have some people here saying everything is obviously down to A, and others saying nothing can be down to A and it's all psychology. As equally usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but is as yet unproven.

The point for me of mentioning placebo (and assorted bias effects) is that we should always remember they are a very valid possibility when we 'percieve' anything. I am NOT suggesting that they explain everything.

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