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Source is important, as I stated above. BUT so is everything else in the audio chain. Thomas you stated a $400 pair of speakers, of one's choice. I know of absolutely no $400- pair of speakers that can even be in the same room/league as the Wilson Wamm's. For example, a Rega front end would sound far superior to a Linn Klimak front end, if the LP12 was hooked up to any $400- speaker you ( Thomas Ok) can nominate and the Rega was hooked up to a system able to drive the Wamms! ( or maybe the amazing new Alsyvox speakers ( as these are fairly easy to drive) ). You more than likely have not heard what these speakers can do, even with a marginal source ( yes, you will hear the warts of the Rega source, BUT you will not hear the excellence of the Klimax with your $400 speakers) and I think if you can get a chance to listen to either speaker-- you will probably be less enamored of your Quads ( and we both agree how fantastic those are!). OTOH, perhaps best NOT to listen to either the Wamm, or the Alsyvox...as these are crazy priced!! 

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I'll take it a big step farther.  Klimax LP12 into a Rega io integrated amp into your choice of $400 a pair speakers (I'd pick PSB Alpha P5 but I don't know about worldwide availability and pricing) w

I’d go for Klimax LP12 into Akurate Hub/DSM Come to think of it that is what I did. I did economise with Akurate Radikal & Krystal and not Karousel’d yet, but I really like what I have. Impor

First off I didn't say you could use garbage speakers, there is a difference between a well chosen, musical $400 pair of speakers and a lot of the junk out there.  As to the rest of it, I also know wh

2 minutes ago, Daveyf said:

Source is important, as I stated above. BUT so is everything else in the audio chain. Thomas you stated a $400 pair of speakers, of one's choice. I know of absolutely no $400- pair of speakers that can even be in the same room/league as the Wilson Wamm's. For example, a Rega front end would sound far superior to a Linn Klimak front end, if the LP12 was hooked up to any $400- speaker you ( Thomas Ok) can nominate and the Rega was hooked up to a system able to drive the Wamms! ( or maybe the amazing new Alsyvox speakers ( as these are fairly easy to drive) ). You more than likely have not hear what these speakers can do, even with a marginal source ( yes, you will hear the warts of the source, BUT you will not hear the excellence of the Klimax with your $400 speakers) and I think if you can get a chance to listen to either speaker-- you will probably be less enamored of your Quads ( and we both agree how fantastic those are!). OTOH, perhaps best NOT to listen to either the Wamm, or the Alsyvox...as these are crazy priced!! 

Hullooo!
Man oh man, you really don’t get it do you? 

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Just now, Clavius said:

Hullooo!
Man oh man, you really don’t get it do you? 

Or, maybe you don't?? Have you actually had the pleasure of hearing the Wamm's or the Alsyvox's? I have. When you have had this experience, do come back and tell me I don't get it..if you can! Till then........................:nerves:

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It’s actually quite painful and disheartening to witness cognitive dissonance in in real time. 

My sincere apologies to fellow forum members for bringing this about.

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It's not a question of 'who is right'.
Let everybody seek for what he finds important.

Most of us will navigate on a mix of the stated extreme positions. Because the fun comes partly from the musical message and partly from sound experience hitting into the autonomic nervous system.

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I subscribe to the "source first" philosophy (or else I wouldn't be here :)) with 2 caveats: AC power is the first "source" and transducers have more audible effect all other things kept relatively even.  This is based on many years/decades of expensive trial and error.  It's only an N=1 and subjective experience. So take it as one person's opinion not a declaration of absolute truth.

 Were I advising someone how to prioritize building a quality sound system I would urge them to begin by cleaning up the energy that flows through the entire musical reproductive process.  My experience is that poor quality AC muffles, strangles and distorts everything that is downstream.  It robs one of the full benefits of what they have paid for their equipment.  This becomes more true as one climbs the equipment price/performance curve where incremental benefits cost increasing sums of money.  

Some of my biggest aha moments have come from improvements in AC power delivery (dedicated electrical runs, reasonable power conditioning and high quality power cables.)  Only after taking care of these things was I able to hear how truly awesome an LP12 can be.  I believe my experiences are consonant with Linn philosophy e.g. the cartridge is only as good as that which precedes it and enables the cartridge to do its job to the best of its designed ability.  

My hierarchy is AC power>LP12 (power supply>bearing>subchassis>armboard>arm>cartridge>cable), speakers (the transducer thing which I will ignore here)> phono stage> preamp> amplifier> sound cables.

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9 hours ago, Daveyf said:

BUT you will not hear the excellence of the Klimax with your $400 speakers

I recently listened to my Klimax LP12 through free Tukans. I heard the excellence of the turntable (music).

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4 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

I recently listened to my Klimax LP12 through free Tukans. I heard the excellence of the turntable (music).

 A slightly unfair comparison - Linn Tukans were $799 list price in the late 1990s.  That's like $1400.00 today.   

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When I recently upgraded from 530s to Akubariks, I did so because my LP12 had just been upgraded to Klimax level. The system sounded great with the 530s, but I figured that the Klimax LP12 was putting out more music than the 530s were revealing. So I got the Akubariks not to improve the sound, but to reveal more of what the LP12 was rendering.

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2 hours ago, Jazz Kisaten said:

I subscribe to the "source first" philosophy (or else I wouldn't be here :)) with 2 caveats: AC power is the first "source" and transducers have more audible effect all other things kept relatively even.  This is based on many years/decades of expensive trial and error.  It's only an N=1 and subjective experience. So take it as one person's opinion not a declaration of absolute truth.

 Were I advising someone how to prioritize building a quality sound system I would urge them to begin by cleaning up the energy that flows through the entire musical reproductive process.  My experience is that poor quality AC muffles, strangles and distorts everything that is downstream.  It robs one of the full benefits of what they have paid for their equipment.  This becomes more true as one climbs the equipment price/performance curve where incremental benefits cost increasing sums of money.  

Some of my biggest aha moments have come from improvements in AC power delivery (dedicated electrical runs, reasonable power conditioning and high quality power cables.)  Only after taking care of these things was I able to hear how truly awesome an LP12 can be.  I believe my experiences are consonant with Linn philosophy e.g. the cartridge is only as good as that which precedes it and enables the cartridge to do its job to the best of its designed ability.  

My hierarchy is AC power>LP12 (power supply>bearing>subchassis>armboard>arm>cartridge>cable), speakers (the transducer thing which I will ignore here)> phono stage> preamp> amplifier> sound cables.

Agree about the importance of good AC to get the most out of your system once its in place.  I've had a few missteps when upgrading my system over the years, mostly with amplification and speakers (here's some good advice: never ever buy Rega speakers.).  But upgrading AC cables for all my components made a very big difference.  Stock cables sound smaller and "pinched" in comparison.  They clarify everything your system wants to do.   

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2 hours ago, Jazz Kisaten said:

I subscribe to the "source first" philosophy (or else I wouldn't be here :)) with 2 caveats: AC power is the first "source" and transducers have more audible effect all other things kept relatively even.  This is based on many years/decades of expensive trial and error.  It's only an N=1 and subjective experience. So take it as one person's opinion not a declaration of absolute truth.

 Were I advising someone how to prioritize building a quality sound system I would urge them to begin by cleaning up the energy that flows through the entire musical reproductive process.  My experience is that poor quality AC muffles, strangles and distorts everything that is downstream.  It robs one of the full benefits of what they have paid for their equipment.  This becomes more true as one climbs the equipment price/performance curve where incremental benefits cost increasing sums of money.  

Some of my biggest aha moments have come from improvements in AC power delivery (dedicated electrical runs, reasonable power conditioning and high quality power cables.)  Only after taking care of these things was I able to hear how truly awesome an LP12 can be.  I believe my experiences are consonant with Linn philosophy e.g. the cartridge is only as good as that which precedes it and enables the cartridge to do its job to the best of its designed ability.  

My hierarchy is AC power>LP12 (power supply>bearing>subchassis>armboard>arm>cartridge>cable), speakers (the transducer thing which I will ignore here)> phono stage> preamp> amplifier> sound cables.

Agree about the importance of good AC to get the most out of your system once its in place.  I've had a few missteps when upgrading my system over the years, mostly with amplification and speakers (here's some good advice: never ever buy Rega speakers.).  But upgrading AC cables for all my components made a very big difference.  Stock cables sound smaller and "pinched" in comparison.  They clarify everything your system wants to do.   

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I've heard music played through $100k Wilson Audio and through $100k McIntosh speakers. Neither of them could improve the musical signal that they were receiving.

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2 hours ago, akamatsu said:

I've heard music played through $100k Wilson Audio and through $100k McIntosh speakers. Neither of them could improve the musical signal that they were receiving.

I think we are all in agreement here that the "source first" philosophy is a very sound and logical one.  After that, we are in the world of subjective musical preference as to where one prioritizes spending.  And one company's philosophy taken to the extreme - that it's a 100000% certainty that a $600 moving magnet cartridge on a $45,000 dollar turntable will musically outperform a $2000 moving coil cartridge on a $15,000 turntable - has to be taken with a grain of salt.  

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2 hours ago, akamatsu said:

I've heard music played through $100k Wilson Audio and through $100k McIntosh speakers. Neither of them could improve the musical signal that they were receiving.

I can counter your unsatisfictory experience with $$$ speakers and $ sources with my own unsatisfactory experience with a previous system of mine that allocated differently to prioritize the source at the expense of the speakers.  In that case the great detail, dynamics and "breath of life" extracted from the turntable were muffled or eliminated at the back end.  I agree that poor speakers cannot "improve" the signal they are being given but they can render it lifeless.  

I think we are debating where and how to allocate finite resources.  In other words, where does one get the 'biggest bang for their buck."  If resources were infinite I'd spend as much as it took to get the best (as I define it) from every part of the reproduction chain.  I believe everything matters.  I have finite resources so I must prioritize and allocate.  This is where the debate exists and where random anecdotal experiences don't help much.

Beyond clean AC, my random anecdotal experience is that $$$ is best spent where the task is hardest; where one form of energy/signal is converted to another.  That is the turntable (mechanical to electric at very small values) and speakers (electric to mechanical at much higher values.)  In my world both allocation approaches (primacy of source or speakers) are valid but not clearly the best.  

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My Katalyst Akubariks can't improve the musical signal that they are receiving from the Klimax LP12.

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