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Second thoughts re: upgrade plans


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I've put this in a new thread to avoid hi-jacking others' threads.

As many of you will know, I'm about to embark on my next LP12 upgrade, for which I'd planned Karousel, Kore and Trampolin. However, given the discussions around "source first", etc. I'm reconsidering. It had been suggested to go straight to Keel - I didn't want to do that that as I have an Ittok LVII and didn't want a hole in the armboard when it got to go to Ekos. Hence Kore as a stepping stone.

However, I'm thinking now... Karousel - yes, it's a no-brainer. Trampolin - why not it's so cheap why wouldn't you do it. Kore - hmmm, better to save the money for a Radikal? And then save for Ekos/Keel in one hop.

Thoughts welcome...

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My plans are pretty close to yours @Andyt916.

Earlier this year I upgraded my deck with Karousel, Kore and Krystal (my Lyra was pretty worn so took the opportunity). I have a Lingo2 as PSU and feed MC stage in Ak Sys Hub (I have an Exakt Katalyst system). I use an Ittok LVIII (mk1) arm.

This week, I’ll swap out the Lingo2 for Ak Radikal (used) and Urika II (used) - which brings the Tramp2 with it.

Last for me would be the Keel + Ekos SE combo. I’m looking to avoid a Keel hole as you are, and it seems consensus these two pieces have great synergy together ... so will wait for a future Linn promo to pick up the pair.

Re: your situation, if you’re deciding Kore vs Radikal, it seems clear consensus Radikal will give you much more ... but it’s quite a bit more money vs Kore so depends on how long you think it would take you to save for Rad ... maybe go used if you can find someone upgrading to Klimax Rad? Then you can talk yourself into both an Ak Rad and Kore like me :-) 

Edited by Matt Chicago
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7 minutes ago, Matt Chicago said:

My plans are pretty close to yours @Andyt916.

Earlier this year I upgraded my deck with Karousel, Kore and Krystal (my Lyra was pretty worn so took the opportunity). I have a Lingo2 as PSU and feed MC stage in Ak Sys Hub (I have an Exakt Katalyst system). I use an Ittok LVIII (mk1) arm.

This week, I’ll swap out the Lingo2 for Ak Radikal (used) and Urika II (used) - which brings the Tramp2 with it.

Last for me would be the Keel + Ekos SE combo. I’m looking to avoid a Keel hole as you are, and it seems consensus these two pieces have great synergy together ... so will wait for a future Linn promo to pick up the pair.

Re: your situation, if you’re deciding Kore vs Radikal, it seems clear consensus Radikal will give you much more ... but it’s quite a bit more money vs Kore so depends on how long you think it would take you to save for Rad ... maybe go used if you can find someone upgrading to Klimax Rad? Then you can talk yourself into both an Ak Rad and Kore like me :-) 

Thanks for the feedback @Matt Chicago. Where I'm at now is thinking that given Kore is price-wise ~20-30% of a Radikal, and I know that I want to end up with Keel/Ekos/Radiakal anyway), would I be better off foregoing Kore in the short term (knowing that it's a stepping stone) to accelerate the longer term goal?

I think I know the answer, but I'm keen to get others' views.

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What would be the trade-in or used market value of your Lingo 4? Don't forget to factor this into the Radikal price.

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Hi Andy, I have three LP12s here at the moment  - our two and my dads. Ours have a Kore and a new Majik sub. Dad's has a Cirkus from just before the change to Majik. I went from Cirkus sub chassis to Kore and was significant. Listening here  this is still the case. However, the difference for Majik sub to Kore is not so great. It is still noticeable but it isn't as big a jump. I only have one Karousel, but I have run it in both the Majik and the Kore - you can hear the benefits via both sub chassis. To me the Keel has two issues - one is that with an Ittok then the arm board has to be drilled - and I just wouldn't do that. The second is that the arm collar, being built in, means that Linn arms only are the future (with one notable exception - Johnnie (Audio Origami) can provide a PU7 to fit a Keel). My Ittok has just come back from Johnnie - I think that people forget just how good they are - I wouldn't go from a serviced Ittok to a questionable used Ekos - and I'm certainly not in the market for a £7-8K SE/Kandid combination). I may, one day change the Ittok for a PU7 (It is very good - and I'd certainly have one before an SE if I  wasn't having a Kandid as well.  What would I do? If you have a Majik Sub then I think that I'd stick with it and keep  my eye open for either a used Kore, Sole or  Keel. Let's face it, they don't deteriorate unless someone drills a hole in it!  A late version Sole is very, very close to a Keel - and a Rubikon is closer still (but rare, whereas there was a late Sole on eBay last week and Cymbiosis sold one two days ago (£400, late version). More rare, but fantastic (different to a Keel  - but stunning) is a Tiger Paw Akula - and this uses a Linn board that you can drill and swap out if you need to later.

I may put a Keel in the main LP12 (Karousel, Kore, Radikal, Ekos 2, Uphorik) one day (long way off)  - but I'm in no rush at all - Kore (or Majik) Karousel, Radikal, Ekos (or Ittok) is really,  really good. 

Take your time - journeys and destinations and all that!

David

Edited by Dasher
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6 minutes ago, Dasher said:

Take your time - journeys and destinations and all that

@Dasher, thanks, great advice. 

After all, if we make multiple changes how do we know what has worked? I must admit I do love my Ittok LVII and would be very sad to give it up.

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23 hours ago, akamatsu said:

What would be the trade-in or used market value of your Lingo 4? Don't forget to factor this into the Radikal price.

My thinking too - If the current sub is a Majik then I'd swap the Lingo 4 for an ex demo Radikal - not too painful - and park the Kore (or Keel) for a later day. The Radikal is a significant change. But, having said that, I'm the wrong person to ask as there are very few levels of LP12 specification that I wouldn't live with and I honestly think that if the basics are right (Majik sub, Karousel, Lingo (x) PS and a serviced Ittok) then anything else is in the nice-to-have category. Once 'nice to have'  is full Klimax then that is a different league but if one chooses to step off the upgrade roundabout at any point between the two, that is stepping off with a very capable player which can be enjoyed with great pleasure!

Edited by Dasher
typo correction
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4 hours ago, Dasher said:

My thinking too - If the current sub is a Majik then I'd swap the Lingo 4 for an ex demo Radikal - not too painful - and park the Kore (or Keel) for a later day. The Radikal is a significant change. But, having said that, I'm the wrong person to ask as very are very few levels of LP12 specification that I wouldn't live with and I honestly think that if the basics are right (Majik sub, Karousel, Lingo (x) PS and a serviced Ittok) then anything else is in the nice-to-have category. Once 'nice to have'  is full Klimax then that is a different league but if one chooses to step off the upgrade roundabout at any point between the two, that is stepping off with a very capable player which can be enjoyed with great pleasure!

Agree with this assessment. Dasher touches on something very important. That is, and I'll say it differently, the gap between what is, and what should be have a big influence on your enjoyment of music via that electrical/mechanical device we call a hifi system. It is clear that you have already planted the notion in your head of a Keel/Ekos SE in your future. So while listening to your LP12 equipped with Kore and Ittok, will you be able to not be distracted by thoughts of how a Keel/Ekos SE would sound? Kore and Ittok will sound just fine, and I think you will be so impressed with the sonic improvement of Karousel/Kore that you be deep into music. Actually, from your posts, I would expect nothing else from a music lover such as yourself.

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Thanks for the advice, all.

On reflection it was a long & tiring day yesterday, and I reckon that I was over-thinking it and getting a bit over-enthusiastic :). Whilst Keel/Ekos, etc remains an aspiration, it is not something that I would say I hanker after on a day-to-day basis and remains a long time, if ever, away. I'd like to think that it doesn't impinge on my enjoyment of the music. In truth, the only thoughts I have about it are on a couple of occasions when hearing a particularly stunning song / riff I've idly thought to myself along the lines of "my word, what must that sound like on a Klimax system"? And then the thought goes, and I'm back into the music.

So the upshot is, given that this will be quite a long-term installation, plus I've received good advice about including a Majik sub-chassis, and given that the cost of a Kore is not much more in the scheme of things I think I shall stick with Plan A, and I'm sure that I shall be very happy with it!

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@Andyt916 Is plan A " Karousel, Kore and Trampolin along with Akurate Radikal" then I agree. I try to do one or two upgrades while the bottom is off and inside the LP12 to get more bang for the buck while the table is in surgery.

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15 hours ago, macfan said:

@Andyt916 Is plan A " Karousel, Kore and Trampolin along with Akurate Radikal" then I agree. I try to do one or two upgrades while the bottom is off and inside the LP12 to get more bang for the buck while the table is in surgery.

Pretty much. It's going to be Karousel, Kore and Trampolin, which will be followed when funds allow by Radikal. And there it will quite likely stay for quite some time (with the possible exception of a Krystal at some point to bring it to all intents and purposes full Akurate spec). That's not something I'm fixated on; just that I have occasionally idly wondered what impact a decent MC cartridge would have on my system.

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3 minutes ago, Andyt916 said:

Pretty much. It's going to be Karousel, Kore and Trampolin, which will be followed when funds allow by Radikal. And there it will quite likely stay for quite some time (with the possible exception of a Krystal at some point to bring it to all intents and purposes full Akurate spec). That's not something I'm fixated on; just that I have occasionally idly wondered what impact a decent MC cartridge would have on my system.

After the Radikal, I think you will be at a good place to take a long breather, even before the Radikal for that matter. Karousel and Kore will amaze you and keep you happy for a long time. Then the Radikal will once again give you a whole new record collection.

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2 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

After the Radikal, I think you will be at a good place to take a long breather, even before the Radikal for that matter. Karousel and Kore will amaze you and keep you happy for a long time. Then the Radikal will once again give you a whole new record collection.

That's the plan :D.

The next question is where? I have two Linn dealers close by that are pretty much equidistant from me. The Sound Gallery, High Wycombe, did my Lingo 4 & Adikt and I was happy with that. Then I was also looking at the website of What You See and Hear, Beaconsfield, and saw that the Linn man there, Colin, was at Radford HiFi in Windsor around the time I bought the LP12 from there, so could very well have sold it to me in the first place. And I had a bit of a "nostalgia pang" :).

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On 18/04/2021 at 16:36, Andyt916 said:

I've put this in a new thread to avoid hi-jacking others' threads.

As many of you will know, I'm about to embark on my next LP12 upgrade, for which I'd planned Karousel, Kore and Trampolin. However, given the discussions around "source first", etc. I'm reconsidering. It had been suggested to go straight to Keel - I didn't want to do that that as I have an Ittok LVII and didn't want a hole in the armboard when it got to go to Ekos. Hence Kore as a stepping stone.

However, I'm thinking now... Karousel - yes, it's a no-brainer. Trampolin - why not it's so cheap why wouldn't you do it. Kore - hmmm, better to save the money for a Radikal? And then save for Ekos/Keel in one hop.

Thoughts welcome...

You can't go wrong either way.  I would always put the Radikal before the Kore but it also costs a lot more.  So if you plan to go there eventually anyway, the Kore will let you hear more music while you save up for the Radikal.  On your last question I don't know anything about The Sound Gallery, they are a bit distant from me.  But Colin is definitely a top notch LP12 setup guy.

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The guys at the Sound Gallery are right up there with the best - back in the 80's I was a regular customer (I even helped them out demoing Celestion SL6 and SL600 speakers).

My preference would be to go for Radikal before the Kore - I went from a Cirkus sub-chassis to a Keel and it was a major improvement, but when I went from Lingo 2 to Radikal it was a far bigger improvement.

The only reason I went Keel then Radikal is because that's the order they came up in (ex-Demo stock).

Edited by DebsE
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