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Upgrade from Linn AV 5125 to C5100 - unexpected outcome


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6 hours ago, Einar said:

I do have a spare pair of chakt08 cards. Could I run the ninkas tri amp aktiv adding the spare pair of bass cards? I.e. run the mids ad bass of separate but identical cards? In the current setup, bi amped aktiv, the mids and bass are linked and run of the same cards. 

In theory you can, IIRC there is no consensus about the positive or negative outcome of mixing different amps. I think though that you need to attenuated for different output powers. 

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In my view the 5125 is better than the 5100. I have a customer that upgraded from 5100 to 5125 a few years ago and he is very happy with the change.

CJ

Edited by CJ1045
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Thank you. Will spend a few weeks fiddling, swapping cables etc and listening but for now I am leaning towards staying with the 5125/D with the active stereo cards. 

Considering using the 5100/C with a pair of Katans in a second system. Read a review (local magazine from 2006) stating that Katans can be used aktiv with Ninka cards. The treble cards (chakt09) are the same while the Katans take chakt10 bass cards and the Ninkas chakt08 bass cards. Still running the Katans aktiv with chakt08 cards is an improvement. Linn was referenced as having confirmed this. Any experience or views on this? Any risk of causing damage? 

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2 hours ago, Einar said:

Thank you. Will spend a few weeks fiddling, swapping cables etc and listening but for now I am leaning towards staying with the 5125/D with the active stereo cards. 

Considering using the 5100/C with a pair of Katans in a second system. Read a review (local magazine from 2006) stating that Katans can be used aktiv with Ninka cards. The treble cards (chakt09) are the same while the Katans take chakt10 bass cards and the Ninkas chakt08 bass cards. Still running the Katans aktiv with chakt08 cards is an improvement. Linn was referenced as having confirmed this. Any experience or views on this? Any risk of causing damage? 

Active bass cards often have a "lift" to the lower frequencies.  If you're using a Ninka card that has a bass lift for Ninka size drivers, your little Katan drivers may object.

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2 hours ago, sunbeamgls said:

Active bass cards often have a "lift" to the lower frequencies.  If you're using a Ninka card that has a bass lift for Ninka size drivers, your little Katan drivers may object.

The Katans are ported too where the Ninka isn't. Probably will sound fine though. I would just let my ears decide.

CJ

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7 hours ago, CJ1045 said:

The Katans are ported too where the Ninka isn't. Probably will sound fine though. I would just let my ears decide.

CJ

All the more reason not to do it.  The sealed air in the Ninka will resist the driver moving, meaning more energy needed from the amp to make it move.

Whereas the Katan driver has very little to resist it moving so it will move much more easily (assuming equal free air efficiency of the drive units themselves), destroying itself quicker, if there is a problem to be concerned about of course. Katan cards come up quite often, so not sure why there's a need to take the risk. 

Ninka passive = 50Hz

Ninka active = 38Hz so something is lifting the bass level a little

Katan passive = 75Hz

Katan active = 60Hz, not even down to Ninka passive level

Edited by sunbeamgls
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IMHO to upgrade a 4 channel active AV5125 will require you to move to an active C4200 amp, an active C6100 will not cut it.

Edited by vicdiaz
Syntax checking.
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Thank you all. Very helpful. Will test the Katans, carefully,  with chakt08 aktiv bass cards while searching for two chakt10 cards when I get around to it. For now the priority is to get comfortable with the AV5125/D v C5100 where I continue to lean towards my initial reaction that the 5125 is superior. This also seem to be the consensus.

Any guidance on how to best adjust the gain on the C5100 (4 dials)? I am finding the gain adjustment to be minimal until it mutes.

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Lots of different opinions here. I had an un-Dynamiked 5125 with bi-active Ninkas for years and later exchanged the 5125 for a non-Dynamik 6100. The tri-active setup with 6100 was so much better, there was no way of going back. Adding the Dynamik to the 6100 is very worthwhile.

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I seconded @Tendaberry already.

This morning an idea crossed my mind. Our usual mental model of an (ideal) power amp is, that it multiplies the input signal by a certain factor (gain). What if we change this for a moment for another model: A power amp connects the speaker with the power grid, and the input signal controls, like a variable valve, how much current flows from the power grid into the speaker at any instant. In the second model, the power supply would be clearly a very critical component of the amp's internal 'hierarchy'.

Edited by TooManyCatweazles
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  • 2 weeks later...

Nice to hear about another person extracting what they can out of the Aktive Ninkas. I am  very happy with my 5125D into aktive Ninkas. Biamping the bass was better than splitting bass duities with 5125 and LK140. I remember when I had an earlier ADS into a Wakonda and aktive LK140s,  the limiting factor was clearly the Wakonda. I would just play music via ADS volume control instead, then upgraded to ADSM1. Never looked back on the upgrade path! The Katalyst upgrade to the ADSM is also a game changer.

I also now have possesion of another set of Ninkas which I am beginning to compare to my others with OW1 tweeters. I'll report back on another thread later on. 

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Are you bi-amping or tri-amping the active Ninkas? I am still bi-amping with the C5100 to give it a fair chance but inclined to prefer the  5125/D. Plan is to swap the 5125 back in in a week or two to compare.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts on the OW1 tweeters. I am in a similar situation with two pairs of Ninkas. One pair with the original three-bar tweeters and one pair with the OW1 tweeters. I acquired them second hand and not sure if the OW1 tweeters were a repair or an upgrade or both…

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I have one 5125D it has a treble card and a bass card. The bass card is driving all 4  bass speakers .

Much better than having an LK140 with another bass card. I used to have 3 LK140s so tri aktive. 5125 more than capable of excellent bass to all 4 speakers. See my other post for my OW1 comparisons. Its very wet here in Nelson and so have indulged in some HiFi comparisons and put gardening on hold.

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Thanks. Seems we have different amp setup. My 5125/D runs 4 mono cards while the C5100 runs two stereo cards. I have yet to hear an ADSM1 but believe it’ has 3 generations or more of development on my 5103. Maybe one day….

Found your OW1 posts. Very interesting. Need to spend more time with my OW1s it seems. Re-auditioning and re-comparing equipment has surprised me before. Will take me some time though as the snow has just melted duty calls.

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8 hours ago, Einar said:

Thanks. Seems we have different amp setup. My 5125/D runs 4 mono cards while the C5100 runs two stereo cards. I have yet to hear an ADSM1 but believe it’ has 3 generations or more of development on my 5103. Maybe one day….

Found your OW1 posts. Very interesting. Need to spend more time with my OW1s it seems. Re-auditioning and re-comparing equipment has surprised me before. Will take me some time though as the snow has just melted duty calls.

I think you have the cards the wrong way round in your writing. The 5125 takes two stereo cards and one mono card - no other option. The 5100 takes 5 mono cards, no other option.

CJ

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