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So....the Klimax Organik DSM


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Dropped in on Colin at What You See and Hear yesterday to pick up some kit and have a listen to the new Klimax Organik DSM.

First impressions - it looks better in the flesh than in the pictures produced by Linn. Still not a big fan of the visual design and I still think the volume/control knob and display are a complete waste as you control the unit sitting on the sofa using a phone or tablet. Actually touching your HiFi (apart from your LP12) is so 20th century!

Colin did the perfect demo, as ever. A Klimax DSM Katalyst versus the new boy. Both were fed into a Klimax Twin then onto Kudos Super 20a speakers. Both were SPACEd.

So Colin started with a few of his demo tracks, first a couple of times on the Kat DSM and then one the Organik DSM. Blimey the difference was not subtle. My simple measure of better sound is if you are hearing things you did not hear before. Yes, you certainly were with the new Organik DSM. It really was like a significant upgrade, even upgrades, to your LP12. You were hearing so much more detail but then this was also translating into so much more involved and absorbing music.  I was not expecting this at all. My big takeaway from this was not to underestimate how much a source upgrade can bring. I was going to write DAC upgrade but felt it was not appropriate to simply attribute the sound quality difference to the DAC alone. After all the box is certainly different and there may also be differences in the other electronics that Linn has not talked about. Perhaps the best test of this would be to compare new versus old System Hubs as you would have thought that the new System hub has every enhancement EXCEPT for the DAC. One for another day or others to write about.

So bottom line is that for those for whom 30K is not a significant amount of money then the new Klimax Organik DSM is a slam dunk purchase. It is the best source there is. For those for whom 30K is significant then the decision, as ever, is more complicated. If you can afford it, you have a system that it will work in (non-EXAKT) you have to listen to it, simple. I would also recommend listening at Colin's as you will hear the difference. The only downside is that you will spend that money as a demo will not convince you it is not worth it!!

I am quite happy that it will not fit in my system (integrated EXAKT speakers) as it is an itch I don't have to scratch, yet.

CJ

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1 hour ago, CJ1045 said:

Dropped in on Colin at What You See and Hear yesterday to pick up some kit and have a listen to the new Klimax Organik DSM.

First impressions - it looks better in the flesh than in the pictures produced by Linn. Still not a big fan of the visual design and I still think the volume/control knob and display are a complete waste as you control the unit sitting on the sofa using a phone or tablet. Actually touching your HiFi (apart from your LP12) is so 20th century!

Colin did the perfect demo, as ever. A Klimax DSM Katalyst versus the new boy. Both were fed into a Klimax Twin then onto Kudos Super 20a speakers. Both were SPACEd.

So Colin started with a few of his demo tracks, first a couple of times on the Kat DSM and then one the Organik DSM. Blimey the difference was not subtle. My simple measure of better sound is if you are hearing things you did not hear before. Yes, you certainly were with the new Organik DSM. It really was like a significant upgrade, even upgrades, to your LP12. You were hearing so much more detail but then this was also translating into so much more involved and absorbing music.  I was not expecting this at all. My big takeaway from this was not to underestimate how much a source upgrade can bring. I was going to write DAC upgrade but felt it was not appropriate to simply attribute the sound quality difference to the DAC alone. After all the box is certainly different and there may also be differences in the other electronics that Linn has not talked about. Perhaps the best test of this would be to compare new versus old System Hubs as you would have thought that the new System hub has every enhancement EXCEPT for the DAC. One for another day or others to write about.

So bottom line is that for those for whom 30K is not a significant amount of money then the new Klimax Organik DSM is a slam dunk purchase. It is the best source there is. For those for whom 30K is significant then the decision, as ever, is more complicated. If you can afford it, you have a system that it will work in (non-EXAKT) you have to listen to it, simple. I would also recommend listening at Colin's as you will hear the difference. The only downside is that you will spend that money as a demo will not convince you it is not worth it!!

I am quite happy that it will not fit in my system (integrated EXAKT speakers) as it is an itch I don't have to scratch, yet.

CJ

It's a good job you didn't hear the hub comparison in an exakt scenario, it is not subtle and you would need some strong anti itch cream.

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35 minutes ago, Suffolkboy said:

It's a good job you didn't hear the hub comparison in an exakt scenario, it is not subtle and you would need some strong anti itch cream.

Damn I am using an Akurate System Hub so that price difference is HUGE. I am pretty sure the hub contains the master clock (memory might be off) so the new hub may have an improved version of that on top of everything else.

CJ

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7 minutes ago, CJ1045 said:

Damn I am using an Akurate System Hub so that price difference is HUGE. I am pretty sure the hub contains the master clock (memory might be off) so the new hub may have an improved version of that on top of everything else.

CJ

I think that you've raised something very interesting here CJ - there are obviously some sweetener deals in place  that make recent KSH to NGKSH a little less painful - but the upgrade from ASH to NGKSH is a relative massive cost to change as the resale value of an ASH is well under £2K these days.

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26 minutes ago, CJ1045 said:

Damn I am using an Akurate System Hub so that price difference is HUGE. I am pretty sure the hub contains the master clock (memory might be off) so the new hub may have an improved version of that on top of everything else.

CJ

The new dsm does contain a much better master clock, I'm sure you'll be offered plenty of older kdms hubs, still a nice improvement!

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4 hours ago, CJ1045 said:

So Colin started with a few of his demo tracks,

I’d be interested to know what they were.  Thanks for your report. 

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Looks like next to the obvious box upgrade, and the hyped DAC update, the ADC and clock also have been upgraded. A very interesting sequence of comparisons would be:

1. LP12 with Urika II into hubs with Exakt systems - minimum upgrade

2. LP12 with analog phono stage into hubs with Exakt system - the ADC comes into play

3. LP 12 with analog phono stage and Organik vs Katalyst  into "analog" backend - maximum upgrade

Edited by TooManyCatweazles
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11 hours ago, CJ1045 said:

Dropped in on Colin at What You See and Hear yesterday to pick up some kit and have a listen to the new Klimax Organik DSM.

First impressions - it looks better in the flesh than in the pictures produced by Linn. Still not a big fan of the visual design and I still think the volume/control knob and display are a complete waste as you control the unit sitting on the sofa using a phone or tablet. Actually touching your HiFi (apart from your LP12) is so 20th century!

Colin did the perfect demo, as ever. A Klimax DSM Katalyst versus the new boy. Both were fed into a Klimax Twin then onto Kudos Super 20a speakers. Both were SPACEd.

So Colin started with a few of his demo tracks, first a couple of times on the Kat DSM and then one the Organik DSM. Blimey the difference was not subtle. My simple measure of better sound is if you are hearing things you did not hear before. Yes, you certainly were with the new Organik DSM. It really was like a significant upgrade, even upgrades, to your LP12. You were hearing so much more detail but then this was also translating into so much more involved and absorbing music.  I was not expecting this at all. My big takeaway from this was not to underestimate how much a source upgrade can bring. I was going to write DAC upgrade but felt it was not appropriate to simply attribute the sound quality difference to the DAC alone. After all the box is certainly different and there may also be differences in the other electronics that Linn has not talked about. Perhaps the best test of this would be to compare new versus old System Hubs as you would have thought that the new System hub has every enhancement EXCEPT for the DAC. One for another day or others to write about.

So bottom line is that for those for whom 30K is not a significant amount of money then the new Klimax Organik DSM is a slam dunk purchase. It is the best source there is. For those for whom 30K is significant then the decision, as ever, is more complicated. If you can afford it, you have a system that it will work in (non-EXAKT) you have to listen to it, simple. I would also recommend listening at Colin's as you will hear the difference. The only downside is that you will spend that money as a demo will not convince you it is not worth it!!

I am quite happy that it will not fit in my system (integrated EXAKT speakers) as it is an itch I don't have to scratch, yet.

CJ

That isn’t true from what others have heard even with integrated exakt the new hub makes a significant improvement

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24 minutes ago, Nrwatson said:

That isn’t true from what others have heard even with integrated exakt the new hub makes a significant improvement

That's exactly, what I was told at my dealer's. Having heard the new hub - albeit shortly and without a proper comparison to the legacy hub - I have no reason to doubt it.

Edited by TooManyCatweazles
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54 minutes ago, Ian H said:

Hmm.  So the source is no longer in the speaker then.

That was only ever in the heads of the marketeers. It didn't last long.

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Quote

Hmm.  So the source is no longer in the speaker then.

Quote

That was only ever in the heads of the marketeers. It didn't last long.

This topic/idea is somewhat complicated in actual fact. I mean, even those who wish to swear by vinyl have a whole can of worms to unravel, as anyone familiar with what led Linn to develop their own record cutting lathe and subsequently an associated label focused on the quality of the actual recording as well as the media (e.g. the vinyl acetate) itself. 

When looking at digital things don't necessarily get any easier. A digital media file of any type can very easily be manipulated at various stages along the signal path, and then when one considers phenomena such as "bit rot" and other forms of data degradation, it can get overwhelming fairly quickly.

But I think the Linn marketing folks at the time were thinking along the lines of "well, the DAC is the source (in the context of a HiFi), so since we're putting that in the speaker - yea! The source is in the speaker!" I can give them a bit of a pass on that, but it's not surprising to see it's since been abandoned.

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13 hours ago, Nrwatson said:

That isn’t true from what others have heard even with integrated exakt the new hub makes a significant improvement

I wrote:

Perhaps the best test of this would be to compare new versus old System Hubs as you would have thought that the new System hub has every enhancement EXCEPT for the DAC. One for another day or others to write about.

I did not hear the System Hub comparison so did not comment on whether it was better or not. I also do not trust other people's ears just my own. Other people like different things to me so their view on the hub may not be mine. For me the new Hub is not financially an option anyway. I would be very interested to know the details on the supposed new master clock as Linn made a big thing about the new master clock when they released kit with EXAKTlinks. So I am keen to know how the new one is better.


CJ

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According to the Organik video, the clocking is down to Vimto -seconds, sorry Femto-seconds, which are really, really small. Don’t know how that compares to the previous clocking.

’troll

Edited by Moomintroll
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3 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

According to the Organik video, the clocking is down to Vimto -seconds, sorry Femto-seconds, which are really, really small. Don’t know how that compares to the previous clocking.

’troll

I had to look up femtosecond. 1/10^-15 seconds. It boggles the mind that such precision is warranted.

A Vimto-second is much smaller. So small that it practically doesn't exist. :D

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