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Dali Opticon8


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24 minutes ago, Blacksabbath25 said:

I can not borrow any cables as I do not no anyone locally to me I would have to buy them and as for isolation I use Gaia feet on my speakers.

I haven’t got a dedicated streamer only using the OPPO as a end point streamer as I use Roon software plus I have the same Cd of this album I have I also have a copy for streaming which the same issue is there so doesn’t mater which way I go 

Funnily enough... :D

As I've just sold my Arcam DAC, I have a pair of Van den Hul D102 Mk III XLRs kicking around here doing nothing at the moment. You are absolutely welcome to try them out if you wish. The only potential issue is that they are short, it's a 50 cm pair so your components would need to be quite close together. If that works for you, give me a shout and I'll stick them in the post

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47 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

I was beginning to get that impression.

It can be a hard one to sort (if sortable).

IMO. The approach has to be very methodical, by ruling out everything it can be, from items in the chain to speaker positioning. In my case, it was (surprisingly) some Atlas Voyager I/Cs that I bought off ebay, that caused my problem.

Have you tried toing out the speakers?

Are all sources as bad as each other?

Are you using any form of isolation under anything - which can help?

Van Den Hul are known for being smooth - can you borrow some?

Do you have a smoother sounding Source you can try - can you borrow something, like a Node 2i

I quite understand that you don't want to throw good money after bad - and the answer may well be to go back to the speakers you like. It's easy to take System synergy for granted - until you lose it.

I only experienced sibilance once when I had Chord Odyssey speaker cables. Changed them to SilverScreen and that cured the problem. Now have Atlas and they are fine.

I/Cs are a mixture of Merlin Chopin, Chord Crimson and a old set of Chord Chrysalis, which I've had since year dot.  

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Just now, plasticpenguin said:

I only experienced sibilance once when I had Chord Odyssey speaker cables. Changed them to SilverScreen and that cured the problem. Now have Atlas and they are fine.

I/Cs are a mixture of Merlin Chopin, Chord Crimson and a old set of Chord Chrysalis, which I've had since year dot.  

It's what works.

I hate Sibilance - It's like the singers are spitting their S's at you.

My goal in putting together a system, is having it as revealing as possible, without exaggerating nastier recordings more than necessary.

@Blacksabbath25 - what tracks from what albums is the problem on? - as I will try it on my system, to see what happens.....though it is obviously worse on your current speakers than your previous ones. Was it there at all before, or there, but not as bad?

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

It's what works.

I hate Sibilance - It's like the singers are spitting their S's at you.

My goal in putting together a system, is having it as revealing as possible, without exaggerating nastier recordings more than necessary.

@Blacksabbath25 - what tracks from what albums is the problem on? - as I will try it on my system, to see what happens.....though it is obviously worse on your current speakers than your previous ones. Was it there at all before, or there, but not as bad?

Hi its this soundtrack on 2 tracks 6 & 7 and no not that i noticed on my old speakers and nothing has changed on cables and i have a downloaded copy of this album as well as a CD copy 

81bKRXpJizL._SS500_.jpg

Edited by Blacksabbath25
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16 minutes ago, Blacksabbath25 said:

Hi its this soundtrack on 2 tracks 6 & 7 and no not that i noticed on my old speakers and nothing has changed on cables and i have a downloaded copy of this album as well as a CD copy 

Played through Node 2i/Arcam AVR600/ Kef LS50 Metas - both tracks have a slight emphasis on words with S's in them. I can see see how with a bit of extra emphasis, it could easily become a bit too much. As it was, I found it at acceptable levels.

Nice album, though...

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5 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

Played through Node 2i/Arcam AVR600/ Kef LS50 Metas - both tracks have a slight emphasis on words with S's in them. I can see see how with a bit of extra emphasis, it could easily become a bit too much. As it was, I found it at acceptable levels.

Nice album, though...

Yes it’s a great album..... 

Are you saying it’s probably due to the album it’s self As thought it was a well recorded album .

And do you think because my top end is quite open and detailed my speakers are finding fault with the recording 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Blacksabbath25 said:

Yes it’s a great album..... 

Are you saying it’s probably due to the album it’s self As thought it was a well recorded album .

And do you think because my top end is quite open and detailed my speakers are finding fault with the recording 

I have now played the same 2 tracks through Linn ADS/Gato/Harbeth, which is even more revealing. The sibilance was a touch more - but still on the side of being acceptable. The Harbeths have Monitor Levels of resolution, but while exposing weaknesses in recordings, don't exaggerate them.

My view is this, based on what I heard through my different systems - both of which are pretty revealing:

I don't think the recording is to blame for excess sibilance - but there is just enough extra emphasis on the letter S, to give issues in certain systems.

If there is any part of your system that is on the analytical side, then the tweeter arrangement in the Opticons may pick this up.

I listen to a lot of Classical Music, which involves Violins/Sopranos/Trumpets/Flutes etc. so any extra emphasis in the Treble region renders it headache inducing - and this usually ensures that the speakers I choose need to sound natural.

From a quick google on the Opticons, some people find the treble a bit metallic and forward sounding, but they are in the minority. From what I can tell, they measure fairly flat, but @tugamight run his more expert eye over any specs/measurements, that might help explain what you are hearing.

I have never heard any Dali Speakers, so can't comment first hand.

Edited by CnoEvil
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14 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

I have now played the same 2 tracks through Linn ADS/Gato/Harbeth, which is even more revealing. The sibilance was a touch more - but still on the side of being acceptable. The Harbeths have Monitor Levels of resolution, but while exposing weaknesses in recordings, don't exaggerate them.

My view is this, based on what I heard through my different systems - both of which are pretty revealing:

I don't think the recording is to blame for excess sibilance - but there is just enough extra emphasis on the letter S, to give issues in certain systems.

If there is any part of your system that is on the analytical side, then the tweeter arrangement in the Opticons may pick this up.

I listen to a lot of Classical Music, which involves Violins/Sopranos/Trumpets/Flutes etc. so any extra emphasis in the Treble region renders it headache inducing - and this usually ensures that the speakers I choose need to sound natural.

From a quick google on the Opticons, some people find the treble a bit metallic and forward sounding, but they are in the minority. From what I can tell, they measure fairly flat, but @tugamight run his more expert eye over any specs/measurements, that might help explain what you are hearing.

I have never heard any Dali Speakers, so can't comment first hand.

As long as the speakers are setup without toe-in and positioned far from the side walls (long wall setup) they're fine.

Like I wrote in my earlier post, Dali speakers have an up-tilting treble on-axis in order to sound flat at the listening spot when no toe-in is used. Because they're putting out more treble than regular speakers I would only use them in large rooms and well away from the side walls. If your room is small avoid.

Other than that idiosyncrasy they seem very competently designed.

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1 minute ago, tuga said:

As long as the speakers are setup without toe-in and positioned far from the side walls (long wall setup) they're fine.

Like I wrote in my earlier post, Dali speakers have an up-tilting treble on-axis in order to sound flat at the listening spot when no toe-in is used. Because they're putting out more treble than regular speakers I would only use them in large rooms and well away from the side walls. If your room is small avoid.

Other than that idiosyncrasy they seem very competently designed.

Thx. Those were also my thoughts.

My little Kefs are the same, where they should be set up Off Axis. They should be below ear height and have No/Minimal Toe-In.

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4 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

Thx. Those were also my thoughts.

My little Kefs are the same, where they should be set up Off Axis. They should be below ear height and have No/Minimal Toe-In.

Here you can see the response of a DALI Rubicon 8, acoustic crossover on supertweeter axis at 50", with summed nearfield responses of woofers (red) and ports (green):

315DAR8fig04.jpg

And the lateral response family, showing the flattest response at 45˚:

315DAR8fig06.jpg

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dali-rubicon-8-loudspeaker-measurements

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Yes I knew about no toe-in even through I’ve been to dealers who think it’s ok to have a little toe-in .

My speakers are setup on the longest part of the room well away from side walls and 28’’ from back wall but do have a fake wood floor but have a big rug between my speakers .

I was thinking of buying drac live to measure my room and to get the very best out my speakers and my setup

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7 hours ago, CnoEvil said:

It's what works.

I hate Sibilance - It's like the singers are spitting their S's at you.

My goal in putting together a system, is having it as revealing as possible, without exaggerating nastier recordings more than necessary.

@Blacksabbath25 - what tracks from what albums is the problem on? - as I will try it on my system, to see what happens.....though it is obviously worse on your current speakers than your previous ones. Was it there at all before, or there, but not as bad?

Aye.

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21 hours ago, CnoEvil said:

Thx. Those were also my thoughts.

My little Kefs are the same, where they should be set up Off Axis. They should be below ear height and have No/Minimal Toe-In.

Just discovered something about my cables both sets of XLRs i own are sliver lined so i have put on a couple of sets of RCAs in the chain instead and now the treble is not so sharp .

I like using the XLRs so need to look out for just copper made ones as i have noticed a lot of them are sliver lined when you look at the spec 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Blacksabbath25 said:

Just discovered something about my cables both sets of XLRs i own are sliver lined so i have put on a couple of sets of RCAs in the chain instead and now the treble is not so sharp .

I like using the XLRs so need to look out for just copper made ones as i have noticed a lot of them are sliver lined when you look at the spec 

Excellent. Sometimes the problem can be quite simple - but hard to find.

I would look to the likes of Van Damme, Mogami, Oyaide, Canare and Beldon.

Edited by CnoEvil
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