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Super Wammer
9 hours ago, vicjayl said:

In the context of music reproduction, whatever does the phrase "too revealing" mean?  Surely there is perfect replication of the live performance on the one hand (admittedly, only a theoretical possiblity) and on the other, degrees of degradation from that perfect sound? That is, there is perfect "revelation", or degrees of loss from that state.  How can revealing be "too much"?  Have I missed something here?

A downstream component reveals the shortcomings of the component upstream. In my case, I was hearing shortcomings from the LP12 that I hadn't experienced before. It could've been the system being too revealing for the recording though. That is, the recording could have been limited.

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8 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

A downstream component reveals the shortcomings of the component upstream. In my case, I was hearing shortcomings from the LP12 that I hadn't experienced before. It could've been the system being too revealing for the recording though. That is, the recording could have been limited.

Hi Michael,

What kind of shortcoming do you experience now with the LP12?

In the very specific signal path in an Exakt system, it could also be the limits of Katalyst cards, the limits of some cables…

Or even something I experienced myself: the more clarity, the more questions to come.
We all love to hear more, but all this new sounds are not necessarily pleasant… and that is the beginning of a (potential) chronic dissatisfaction, and upgrade race.

Be careful 😊

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8 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

What do you use yourself, BenHao? I looked in your profile but you don’t list anything. What’s your Linn story? You only joined recently and I see that no one welcomed you. Welcome to Wigwam.

’troll

I am a newbie in this forum, will provide some info when I have time to get around.
Thanks @Moomintroll

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Super Wammer
19 minutes ago, Chris 1970 said:

Hi Michael,

What kind of shortcoming do you experience now with the LP12?

In the very specific signal path in an Exakt system, it could also be the limits of Katalyst cards, the limits of some cables…

Or even something I experienced myself: the more clarity, the more questions to come.
We all love to hear more, but all this new sounds are not necessarily pleasant… and that is the beginning of a (potential) chronic dissatisfaction, and upgrade race.

Be careful 😊

Bonjour Christophe,

Thank you for your interest and willingness to have a conversation about this phenomenon. Perhaps I have yet to reach a conclusion about all this. But I too have had scary thoughts about chronic dissatisfaction. I'm finding that some records that I enjoyed before the KDSMH are now sounding a bit off. I previously described it as the timing being not as exact as with DS. I'm thinking that the Radikal 2 will remedy this if it really is a problem. Perhaps I became used to the more exact timing of DSing, and so now I notice any limitation with the LP12's timing. Or, all this could just be the entire system now revealing more of what is on the LP. So that could be limitations with the recording, or with the pressing. I'm still investigating this. The NG Klimax DSM hub is so revealing it may be disrupting the hierarchy.

I look forward to you receiving your new kit so that we may sort this out together.

Salut,

Michael

Edited by akamatsu
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Super Wammer
11 minutes ago, BenHao said:

I am a newbie in this forum, will provide some info when I have time to get around.
Thanks @Moomintroll

Photographic evidence won't be required. We'll take your word for it.

While you are here, go ahead and have a look at my profile. If you are still interested.

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6 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

I'm finding that records that I enjoyed before the KDSMH are now sounding a bit off. I previously described it as the timing being not as exact as with DS. I'm thinking that the Radikal 2 will remedy this if it really is a problem. Perhaps I became used to the more exact timing of DSing, and so now I notice any limitation with the LP12's timing. Or, all this could just be the entire system now revealing more of what is on the LP. So that could be limitations with the recording, or with the pressing. I'm still investigating this.

One or two of this points could be right… the Radikal 2 will tell 😊

I'm puzzled myself with the Nordost products burn-in.

They have a huge effect on the sound: half of the time they're fantastic, but sometimes, they're a little tiring, or really tiring, or completely broken (all being in the wrong order, very strange!!!) on the same discs.

It could be burn-in too, in your system.

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22 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

I look forward to you receiving your new kit so that we may sort this out together.

I'll do ! 😊

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Super Wammer
3 minutes ago, Chris 1970 said:

It could be burn-in too, in your system.

I have never found burn-in to be much of a factor. Things seem to settle in rather quickly after being put into service anew. Then there is the daily warmup of the system, especially the LP12. That takes about one side of an LP.

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Super Wammer
6 minutes ago, Chris 1970 said:

One or two of this points could be right… the Radikal 2 will tell 😊

I'm sort of holding off judgement until Radikal 2 arrives. Everything may just fall right back into place from there. But what I'm noticing is that it takes very well equipped LP12 to play with the NG Klimax DSM hub.

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6 hours ago, Chris 1970 said:

One or two of this points could be right… the Radikal 2 will tell 😊

I'm puzzled myself with the Nordost products burn-in.

They have a huge effect on the sound: half of the time they're fantastic, but sometimes, they're a little tiring, or really tiring, or completely broken (all being in the wrong order, very strange!!!) on the same discs.

It could be burn-in too, in your system.

I have installed many aftermarket cables in my system and experienced the effects of run-in in virtually every case.

‘With my brand new mains leads, they sound very good when I first plug them in, then after a short while they sound poor. At about 8 hours of run-in time, the mids and highs improved significantly, then at around 20 hours, the bass improves dramatically and the whole presentation is improved. This has happened with every one of my new mains leads. Surprisingly, I can hear the transformation as it is occurring, in real time.

Generally, each of my Ethernet cables take about 4 hours to transform and does improve again with longer run-in

I don’t have any experience with run-in times on new Nordost cables, but have heard some with lots of run-in time. I was very pleased with the sound quality I was hearing.

‘Hopefully your Nordost stabilizes soon.

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Super Wammer

Last night, I put on Peter Gabriel "Us" on 45 rpm LP. Well, there is no problem with the LP12 nor the entire system. It sounded amazing! It was so musical and engaging, the best I've ever heard on my system. After listening to the entire album, I put on the same remastered version but streaming CD quality on Qobuz. It too sounded amazing. I think I preferred the LP version, but the DS version did seem to have that more precise timing. I will just wait for the Radikal 2 before doing anymore comparisons, etc. In the meantime, I'll just listen to music.

But from this, I can say that limitations have, for the most part, been in the recordings and the pressing of the LPs. I have found similar limitation on the digital side as well, as Qobuz/Tidal offerings can be suspect.

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Super Wammer
On 03/11/2021 at 08:49, akamatsu said:

But from this, I can say that limitations have, for the most part, been in the recordings and the pressing of the LPs.

I'm finding more and more LPs that just sound absolutely out of this world fantastic. So I'm no longer of the notion that NG Klimax DSM could be too revealing for my previously known as full Klimax LP12. However, I do at times get a sense that I'm hearing the limit of the LP12, not hearing it, but just a sense. Hmmm. But there are too many variables such as the mood of the listener to draw any conclusions.

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Super Wammer
13 minutes ago, vicjayl said:

Yet again, can someone explain to me what "too revealing" means in this context? 

On 02/11/2021 at 09:32, akamatsu said:

A downstream component reveals the shortcomings of the component upstream. In my case, I was hearing shortcomings from the LP12 that I hadn't experienced before. It could've been the system being too revealing for the recording though. That is, the recording could have been limited.

Sometimes an extreme example is needed to demonstrate a point. If one played a Rega P1 through a Rega phono amp through a NG Klimax DSM, imagine that the limitations of the Rega P1 would be manifest.

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