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New Klimax System Hub


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1 minute ago, akamatsu said:

I just remember a conversation with you a couple of years ago when you thought I could upgrade my 530s to Katalyst by adding a Katalyst equipped DSM. One of your posts here demonstrated a lack of understanding as auditioning a Klimax DSM would be way different from upgrading to a KSH without Organik DAC. So pardon me for thinking that. I'm glad you cleared that up for yourself.

It’s a beautiful day, time to get out on our bikes

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This morning I talked  to one of the guys that received his Next Generation Klimax Hub a couple of days ago, playing into Katalyst 350’s

‘He replaced his 2018 variant Klimax Hub, which I recall he had recently upgraded from a 2016 variant, and now has the new Next Generation Klimax Hub 

He said that the improvements in sound quality with the new Klimax Hub, compared to the 2018 variant are completely another level. Instruments such as piano and drums are in another league that is a sound quality he has not heard before with such pleasure

‘This was true for streaming music, playing his Klimax LP-12 and for surround movies and music 

‘As always, your mileage may vary, and it is always best to hear it for your self

Edited by Paulssurround
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Hey @Paulssurround, just out of curiosity, can you please ask the guy you talked to if he uses an Urika II with his Klimax LP12? From his perspective, how noticeable is the difference with that + the new hub (vs the 2018 KSH) … which presumably would be an altogether different story if he’s using an analogue phono stage into the new hub’s ADC.

I’m personally not in the market for one having just recently bought an ASH, but would be good to hear his opinion.

I’m struggling to believe the difference is so great from a KSH 2018 (for that specific use case). Especially since you can wire the Urika II direct into the  350s (in daisy chain fashion) so it’s not even passing through the hub. Yes, I know clocking and all … but seems the 2018 variant already had a very pure power supply and quality clock.

I’m more likely expecting audible differences in digital streaming and sources connected through the hub (e.g. blu ray) … and don’t mean to overthink it, as in the end it’s down to an individual’s holistic perception of what they’re hearing. But it’s an opportunity to get an opinion on this very specific A/B comparison that I haven’t seen published yet.

Thanks

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13 minutes ago, Matt Chicago said:

Hey @Paulssurround, just out of curiosity, can you please ask the guy you talked to if he uses an Urika II with his Klimax LP12? From his perspective, how noticeable is the difference with that + the new hub (vs the 2018 KSH) … which presumably would be an altogether different story if he’s using an analogue phono stage into the new hub’s ADC.

I’m personally not in the market for one having just recently bought an ASH, but would be good to hear his opinion.

I’m struggling to believe the difference is so great from a KSH 2018 (for that specific use case). Especially since you can wire the Urika II direct into the  350s (in daisy chain fashion) so it’s not even passing through the hub. Yes, I know clocking and all … but seems the 2018 variant already had a very pure power supply and quality clock.

I’m more likely expecting audible differences in digital streaming and sources connected through the hub (e.g. blu ray) … and don’t mean to overthink it, as in the end it’s down to an individual’s holistic perception of what they’re hearing. But it’s an opportunity to get an opinion on this very specific A/B comparison that I haven’t seen published yet.

Thanks

He definitely is using a Urika II, and he noted that the improvements are substantial for the new Klimax Hub with his Klimax LP-12 compared to the Klimax Hub 2018 variant.

I have not been able to hear his system for myself, as he lives in another country, but when I auditioned the new NGKDSM A/V variant recently into Katalyst 350’s, I can only conclude that Linn has done a lot more than take the old circuit boards and place it in a new box.

‘The sound signature of the musical performance and detail has changed in such a dramatic way, that there must have been a lot of advances in design and engineering that are really paying off for Linn. All I can say is that the combination of Linn’s efforts have brought a lot to the table.

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Thank you. His system must sound amazing. Great to hear it delivered such an improvement in what I would think is the least likely case! Should be off the charts when he adds the Organik DAC upgrade :-) 

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3 hours ago, Matt Chicago said:

Thank you. His system must sound amazing. Great to hear it delivered such an improvement in what I would think is the least likely case! Should be off the charts when he adds the Organik DAC upgrade :-) 

Yes, he is very pleased with the improvements in sound quality.

‘The new Organik module upgrades for his 350’s should arrive in the next week or so.

‘My Linn dealer in Vancouver, should have their Organik modules for their 350’s soon as well, and then I will have a chance to hear them here.   😊🙏

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13 hours ago, Matt Chicago said:

I’m struggling to believe the difference is so great from a KSH 2018 (for that specific use case). Especially since you can wire the Urika II direct into the  350s (in daisy chain fashion) so it’s not even passing through the hub. Yes, I know clocking and all … but seems the 2018 variant already had a very pure power supply and quality clock.

What Linn say:

“What performance improvements does the new Klimax System Hub offer to existing Klimax System Hub owners?
Exakt Devices
• Ultra-low jitter clock with improved clock distribution circuitry and new low-noise power supply
• This clock is used as the Exakt master clock and is distributed to all Exakt devices in the system
• Improving the clock in the hub improves the performance of all Exakt devices in the system”

Simply Better… as they used to say

’troll

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Super Wammer
25 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Simply Better… as they used to say

But perhaps it should now be ‘Extremely complicated, yet better still”?  ;-)

Edited by Nopiano
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Super Wammer
5 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

What Linn say:

“What performance improvements does the new Klimax System Hub offer to existing Klimax System Hub owners?
Exakt Devices
• Ultra-low jitter clock with improved clock distribution circuitry and new low-noise power supply
• This clock is used as the Exakt master clock and is distributed to all Exakt devices in the system
• Improving the clock in the hub improves the performance of all Exakt devices in the system”

Simply Better… as they used to say

’troll

All they are citing is the new clock. So if it is just the new clock that makes the difference, when spinning vinyl via the Urika II, the improvement would be only to Exakt.

Is this your understanding?

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5 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

Improving the clock in the hub improves the performance of all Exakt devices in the system

I don’t know if it’s possible to draw the parallel I’m about to make, but this makes me think of the motor in the LP 12 and the hierarchy. In that case, as I understand it, improving the consistency and accuracy of platter speed with a “better” motor + control unit has a very significant impact on the musicality/timing. Following the hierarchy, it’s delivers a more marked difference than a “better” tonearm with a lesser motor.

So, I wonder about the quality of the digital clocking vs the Organik DAC. Will it be the case that the “less sexy” upgrade of the clock (LP 12 motor example) contributes even more to improved sound vs the “more sexy” Organik DAC … and if you can afford only one at a time, you’d be advised to first upgrade the Hub (clock) before swapping Exaktbox Katalyst DACs to Organik?

Really looking forward to hearing how others experience A/B tests in this way to uncover the relative importance and if such a clear hierarchy exists.

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Super Wammer
1 minute ago, Matt Chicago said:

I don’t know if it’s possible to draw the parallel I’m about to make, but this makes me think of the motor in the LP 12 and the hierarchy. In that case, as I understand it, improving the consistency and accuracy of platter speed with a “better” motor + control unit has a very significant impact on the musicality/timing. Following the hierarchy, it’s delivers a more marked difference than a “better” tonearm with a lesser motor.

So, I wonder about the quality of the digital clocking vs the Organik DAC. Will it be the case that the “less sexy” upgrade of the clock (LP 12 motor example) contributes even more to improved sound vs the “more sexy” Organik DAC … and if you can afford only one at a time, you’d be advised to first upgrade the Hub (clock) before swapping Exaktbox Katalyst DACs to Organik?

Really looking forward to hearing how others experience A/B tests in this way to uncover the relative importance and if such a clear hierarchy exists.

What you are asking is the central question of this thread.

My experience says that timing has the biggest impact on the tune.

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25 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

All they are citing is the new clock. So if it is just the new clock that makes the difference, when spinning vinyl via the Urika II, the improvement would be only to Exakt.

Is this your understanding?

I think my answer to that is “yes” - as in “it improves the performance of all Exakt devices in the system”

Is there a “in that case” coming?

’troll

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Super Wammer
1 hour ago, Moomintroll said:

I think my answer to that is “yes” - as in “it improves the performance of all Exakt devices in the system”

Is there a “in that case” coming?

’troll

The only "in that case" would be the case itself, but the old KSH case is most likely no worse and gets the job done. However, in my case situation, coming from Akurate EDSM, I would benefit.

I just got a report via email from Germany that the new KSH is "sensationally better." So the clock improvement could make things "sensationally better." This would only be impacting Exakt.

Edit: Something just occurred to me; It stands to reason that the better clock could impact the Katalyst DAC as well. Why wouldn't it? It's one of the inputs to the DAC.

Edited by akamatsu
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I fully agree that the new Klimax is “sensationally better”

‘Perhaps another way to look at this is to examine the types of improvements in sound quality that are being reported by forum members, and what could possibly make that kind of improvement.

‘From my own experience, I heard substantial improvements in bass, being far deeper bass, like the speakers were reaching another octave or more lower. The bass was refined, detailed, smooth and very powerful with wayyyyyy more energy, yet it did not mask the mids and highs at all. Everything was there and nothing I could hear that was masked.

‘The instruments were so organic and natural sounding, with piano keys having an exemplary harmonic and detail, like the piano was in the room. Drums were so clear and defined that you could hear the drum sticks hit the skins as if you were standing near a real drum set and even differentiate which part of the drum set was being struck. All the musicians were well defined in their sound stage, as discrete individuals with space around them, and all the instruments and vocals had equal weight in the space with no one recessed. In the background.

Because of the perceived deeper bass, the sound stage seemed much deeper and wider, and the whole presentation filled the room unlike any Linn I have heard. A well set up pair of Komris certainly gives you a great taste of that, but this was very special.

‘The whole experience was one of astonishment, as to how much the new Klimax could make such a wholesale change in sound quality on every level

We know that Linn has created new casework for the new Klimax DSM/Hub that is almost 40 pounds, with far thicker aluminum walls, better differentiation and isolation of the power supply from circuit boards and running internal cabling of the components. IMHO this is a a substantial effort to create the maximum amount of shielding to protect internal sensitive electronics and protect the circuit boards and cables from EMI and radio interference. From my own experiences with internal shielding of the power supply from the circuit boards in my Akurate electronics, I was able to get much deeper clearer bass, better detail overall in the bass, mids and highs, wider and deeper sound stage and improved presentation overall.

‘The added weight of the new Klimax casework would certainly mitigate most of the vibrations of the electronics from the power supply and from external influences such as the low frequencies from the speakers that could vibrate the electronics.

‘Linn has found probably found ways to shorten the circuit path, and improve the power supply to the circuits. They may have also found electronic components suppliers that have better performance specifications?

I think we have to seriously take the upscaling into consideration as a significant enhancement to performance as well? This could have the effect of removing artifacts out beyond hearing range. 

‘As always, it would be best to audition the new Klimax yourself and let your ears decide.

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Super Wammer
2 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

I fully agree that the new Klimax is “sensationally better”

‘Perhaps another way to look at this is to examine the types of improvements in sound quality that are being reported by forum members, and what could possibly make that kind of improvement.

‘From my own experience, I heard substantial improvements in bass, being far deeper bass, like the speakers were reaching another octave or more lower. The bass was refined, detailed, smooth and very powerful with wayyyyyy more energy, yet it did not mask the mids and highs at all. Everything was there and nothing I could hear that was masked.

‘The instruments were so organic and natural sounding, with piano keys having an exemplary harmonic and detail, like the piano was in the room. Drums were so clear and defined that you could hear the drum sticks hit the skins as if you were standing near a real drum set and even differentiate which part of the drum set was being struck. All the musicians were well defined in their sound stage, as discrete individuals with space around them, and all the instruments and vocals had equal weight in the space with no one recessed. In the background.

Because of the perceived deeper bass, the sound stage seemed much deeper and wider, and the whole presentation filled the room unlike any Linn I have heard. A well set up pair of Komris certainly gives you a great taste of that, but this was very special.

‘The whole experience was one of astonishment, as to how much the new Klimax could make such a wholesale change in sound quality on every level

Again, even though you say you aren't confused. This was about the Klimax System Hub (KSH), not the Klimax DSM that you auditioned. You heard the Organik DACs.

Edit: As it turns out, it is I who was confused. Apologies to @Paulssurround.

Edited by akamatsu
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