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New Klimax System Hub


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Thank you for opening this interesting thread, focussing on the role of the NGKSH. I repeat here my observations from a listening session three weeks ago at my dealer from another thread, and add a few thoughts about the KSH.

"After a very enthusiastic report of my dealer about the NG Klimax System Hub, I visited him yesterday [April 13th] for a listening session of Klimax 350 (Katalyst) with the new Hub. It was really an amazing system, sounded very good, we had a lot of fun listening to all kinds of music streamed from Tidal. Lots of detail of CD quality recordings I did not notice before, but still all the fun there. We did not bother to connect the "old" Klimax System Hub for comparison, so I cannot 100% be sure it would not be the same level of performance, but from what I remember the new hub was clearly better. I can only imagine what the Organik update to the 350s will bring.

What also struck me is when we changed to the LP12 (Klimax spec incl. Urika II), it was an even better experience. By the way, the first vinyl he spun was a late 70s record during oil crisis, it was really "wobbly"... but much better than all the streams we had heard. So I am anxious to see if Organik will erase that difference... with Katalyst, it is cleary there (and not small)."

So the improvement (from memory, no A/B comparison) was there from the new KSH alone, which did surprise me. But I am not really in the market for the KSH. As I own Katalysed Akubariks, I mentally marked the Organik upgrade for the Akubariks as necessary though. But now I wonder how big the contribution of the NGKSH really is, also with Organik. E.g., the comparison with "Organik'ed" 350s with old KSH and NGKSH would really interest me. Maybe there is quite a lot of contribution of the new precise clocking in the NGKSH, which already "unleashes" the Katalyst 350s that I heard, and maybe it is just as important with the Organik 350. Initially I thought (and I still do) that the Organik version of Exakt speakers (350s/Akubariks/...) will be the main upgrade, and the NGKSH does not really play a role. But maybe... going "only" Organik in the speakers w/o the KSH is sort of a "side-step"... who knows.

Just a thought... and maybe Paul and/or others getting the chance to audition the Organik 350s can try it with both "old" KSH and NGKSH, and try to make out the difference between the two Hubs. That would be great... Looking forward to reports from the Organik 350's!

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Berni I think the new kdsm makes a huge difference without organic and I suspect in your system would make a very significant improvement with out organik we await Paul’s confirmation when he gets his trial

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21 minutes ago, Nrwatson said:

we await Paul’s confirmation when he gets his trial

the jury’s out on that one…

(sorry @Paulssurround couldn’t resist :P)

’troll

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13 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

the jury’s out on that one…

(sorry @Paulssurround couldn’t resist :P)

’troll

But was very significant into Katalyst 350s so can’t see why akubariks should be any different 

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Posted (edited)

@Nrwatsonit was a (poor) attempt at humour on the use of “trial” no criticism of the Akubariks. :rockin:


Thank you for pointing out that not everyone would read it as intended. :minikev:

‘troll

Edited by Moomintroll
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, berni said:

Thank you for opening this interesting thread, focussing on the role of the NGKSH. I repeat here my observations from a listening session three weeks ago at my dealer from another thread, and add a few thoughts about the KSH.

"After a very enthusiastic report of my dealer about the NG Klimax System Hub, I visited him yesterday [April 13th] for a listening session of Klimax 350 (Katalyst) with the new Hub. It was really an amazing system, sounded very good, we had a lot of fun listening to all kinds of music streamed from Tidal. Lots of detail of CD quality recordings I did not notice before, but still all the fun there. We did not bother to connect the "old" Klimax System Hub for comparison, so I cannot 100% be sure it would not be the same level of performance, but from what I remember the new hub was clearly better. I can only imagine what the Organik update to the 350s will bring.

What also struck me is when we changed to the LP12 (Klimax spec incl. Urika II), it was an even better experience. By the way, the first vinyl he spun was a late 70s record during oil crisis, it was really "wobbly"... but much better than all the streams we had heard. So I am anxious to see if Organik will erase that difference... with Katalyst, it is cleary there (and not small)."

So the improvement (from memory, no A/B comparison) was there from the new KSH alone, which did surprise me. But I am not really in the market for the KSH. As I own Katalysed Akubariks, I mentally marked the Organik upgrade for the Akubariks as necessary though. But now I wonder how big the contribution of the NGKSH really is, also with Organik. E.g., the comparison with "Organik'ed" 350s with old KSH and NGKSH would really interest me. Maybe there is quite a lot of contribution of the new precise clocking in the NGKSH, which already "unleashes" the Katalyst 350s that I heard, and maybe it is just as important with the Organik 350. Initially I thought (and I still do) that the Organik version of Exakt speakers (350s/Akubariks/...) will be the main upgrade, and the NGKSH does not really play a role. But maybe... going "only" Organik in the speakers w/o the KSH is sort of a "side-step"... who knows.

Just a thought... and maybe Paul and/or others getting the chance to audition the Organik 350s can try it with both "old" KSH and NGKSH, and try to make out the difference between the two Hubs. That would be great... Looking forward to reports from the Organik 350's!

Looks like we have the same system.

Thanks for reporting, very helpful to me as someone who will buy the new KSH before too long. I listen to vinyl about 95% of the time. So, with Urika II is of special interest.

We can speculate about Organik Exakt speakers (350s, Akubariks) with Organik onboard, and the effect of old KSH vs. new KSH. I'm thinking that there will be a synergy between the new KSH and Organik DACs as they were most likely designed to work together. Perhaps the new clock will provide the final piece of the synergistic puzzle.

With the Akubariks, we will have to wait a couple of years to complete the full upgrade. It will be a long couple of years.

Edited by akamatsu
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38 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

Looks like we have the same system.

Thanks for reporting, very helpful for me as someone who will buy the new KSH before too long. I listen to vinyl about 95% of the time. So, with Urika II is of special interest to me.

We can speculate about Organik Exakt speakers (350s, Akubariks) with Organik onboard, and the effect of old KSH vs. new KSH. I'm thinking that there will be a synergy between the new KSH and Organik DACs as they were most likely designed to work together. Perhaps the new clock will provide the final piece of the synergistic puzzle.

With the Akubariks, we will have to wait a couple of years to complete the full upgrade. It will be a long couple of years.

Yes, we have the same system indeed. Congrats on your great system BTW! ;)

I am still hoping that Organik trickles down into the Akubariks within 12-18 months, but that may very well be wishful thinking. It sort of helps that the NGKSH is out of reach for me so I just have to wait... ;) 

For the time being, I am looking forward to the reports of Paul and others.

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3 minutes ago, berni said:

I am still hoping that Organik trickles down into the Akubariks within 12-18 months

It has been confirmed by me with two dealers that the trickle down will happen. Latest report is closer to 24 months. The only speculation on the cost from a dealer was $9000.

And congratulations on your awesome system as well! :D

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

the jury’s out on that one…

(sorry @Paulssurround couldn’t resist :P)

’troll

Order in the court, or you will be in contempt. 😂😂

‘Hopefully we don’t have a hung jury

23 minutes ago, berni said:

Yes, we have the same system indeed. Congrats on your great system BTW! ;)

I am still hoping that Organik trickles down into the Akubariks within 12-18 months, but that may very well be wishful thinking. It sort of helps that the NGKSH is out of reach for me so I just have to wait... ;) 

For the time being, I am looking forward to the reports of Paul and others.

 Congratulations!!

I have the same Katalyst Akubariks system as you and Akamatsu as well. I am very much looking forward to how this unfolds

I will have to wait until next week to audition the NGKDSM with non-Exakt speakers to hear the Organik DAC, as I have a crew of workers doing bathroom renovations this week. This is going to be a very busy construction day. 

Are you the Berni I met in Cologne?  😊

Edited by Paulssurround
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15 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

Order in the court, or you will be in contempt. 😂😂

‘Hopefully we don’t have a hung jury

 Congratulations!!

I have the same Katalyst Akubariks system as you and Akamatsu as well. I am very much looking forward to how this unfolds

I will have to wait until next week to audition the NGKDSM with non-Exakt speakers to hear the Organik DAC, as I have a crew of workers doing bathroom renovations this week. This is going to be a very busy construction day. 

Are you the Berni I met in Cologne?  😊

Yes, that's me. It was a pleasure meeting you, great that you could make it possible. :)

I wish you a lot of fun playing around with the NGKDSM and good luck with the bathroom renovations. Remember to use it a last time before they start, and hope they finish quickly... ;)

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Posted (edited)
On 03/05/2021 at 16:18, akamatsu said:

All they are citing is the new clock. So if it is just the new clock that makes the difference, when spinning vinyl via the Urika II, the improvement would be only to Exakt.

Is this your understanding?

In digital systems the clock is absolutely crucial. LINN was one of the first with the NUMERIK as an external clock for the KARIK CD Player. I still use the KARIK with a MUTEC MC3+ USB which works here as a reclocking system. The sound improvement is remarkable. MUTEC has launched the Ref 10 -  a 10 MHz Clock for about 3.5K€ with excellent recommendations.
So I wonder how the signal from the URIKA 2 could take profit from the NGKSH Clock. Maybe there's a difference whether you connect it into the NGKSH first, instead of setting it into the EXAKT Chain via the Speaker-Inputs?

Edited by Wickie8166
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2 minutes ago, Wickie8166 said:

In digital systems the clock is absolutely crucial. LINN was one of the first with the NUMERIK as an external clock for the KARIK CD Player. I still use the KARIK with a MUTEC MC3+ USB which works here as a reclocking system. The sound improvement is remarkable. MUTEC has launched the Ref 10 -  a 10 MHz Clock for about 3.5K€ with excellent recommendations.
So I wonder how the signal from the URIKA 2 could take profit from the NGKSH Clock. Maybe there's a difference whether you connect it into the NGKSH first, instead of stetting it into the EXAKT Chain via the Speaker-Inputs?

I'm thinking that the better clock would certainly improve the performance of the Urika II. As for where it is connected, I don't think that this matters. Since digital is two-way traffic, a Urika II connected via a speaker would still be connected to the DSM.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

I'm thinking that the better clock would certainly improve the performance of the Urika II. As for where it is connected, I don't think that this matters. Since digital is two-way traffic, a Urika II connected via a speaker would still be connected to the DSM.

Of course you're right with the bidirectional aspect.

Edited by Wickie8166
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9 hours ago, berni said:

Yes, that's me. It was a pleasure meeting you, great that you could make it possible. :)

I wish you a lot of fun playing around with the NGKDSM and good luck with the bathroom renovations. Remember to use it a last time before they start, and hope they finish quickly... ;)

Great to see you on the Forum and was wonderful to meet you.

Yes it was a serendipitous meeting in Cologne, when you joined Alex and I for dinner 

‘Next thing we knew, we were at your home doing Space Optimisation  😊

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

I'm thinking that the better clock would certainly improve the performance of the Urika II. As for where it is connected, I don't think that this matters. Since digital is two-way traffic, a Urika II connected via a speaker would still be connected to the DSM.

Master clock is in the DS(M) - it doesn’t matter how the Exakt devices are connected. So, if Urika II is plugged into a speaker, it still gets its reference clock from the Master.

With the new clock running at femto-seconds, it’ll be interesting to see what it makes of cables used for Exaktlinks which aren’t the recommended CAT5/6.

’troll

Edited by Moomintroll
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