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2 minutes ago, audio_PHIL_e said:

False. But you'd be just as likely to say there is no "art" in electronics or speaker design, or in the making of software. There IS a lot of scientific method, measurement, calculation and engineering discipline involved but if it were just that, then there would be little difference between products. Have you read Zen and the Art of?

Correct. In many instances “art”is used in a figurative sense.

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But not necessarily the best-written or best-constructed? tbh the notion of "well-produced hip-hop" strikes me as polishing a turd.

You've only got to listen to the output of Capitol radio to see how dire mainstream music is. The station only appears to have 4 records from what I can discern.  1. Boy? Whining to a guitar with

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On 02/05/2021 at 08:46, ziggy said:

Rap and hip hop have accelerated the process.

I strongly disagree with this generalized statement

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6 hours ago, DomT said:

Are you being ironic?

Do you understand what irony even means? Because it doesn't seem like it. 

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Posted (edited)

A lot of hip-hop producers actually care how albums sound, too many to list actually, there are a lot of *great* sounding albums over the years - regardless of whether you enjoy the genre. 

Chronic 2001 will give your system more of a work out and show you what it can do, than some Fiona Apple album 

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In short, there is no death of melody in "modern" music. You're either just getting old or looking in the wrong places. 

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I cannot detect melody in rap and hip hop, or musicianship.  Most metal has melody to a greater or lesser extent and the bands can play.

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1 hour ago, tuga said:

How many people have expressed themselves artistically, as professionals or amateurs?

How many of those composers, writers, painters, sculptors have withstood the test of time?

Aah "tugs" :)....I can remember a time when half of my friends owned an instrument of some kind. They were part of folks lives. We were encouraged to "loosen up" & not scorned about our efforts but included ? It didnt matter if you were poor/amateur because part of the group could keep it together (loosely). I played in a v. loose skiffle band (group of friends) that might include up to 10 people. The less musical among us usually ended up with the old trumpet or trombone. Rhythmically we were on it & spontaneous bursts of badly played brass was fun & enjoyable. You could not deny there was energy & enjoyment on & off the stage.  Art....of course it was, but it didnt cross our minds as we were collectively having a ball.

Should we have stood the test of time ? Nobody gave a flying fook whether we would ?  The most intelligent artists imo, realise that true art has nothing to do with success but more following their own nose... without compromise.   If then they are "accepted" by admirers they simply play the game & pay the bills.  Getting a balance between this & being a true artist is not achieved by many imo.

My views are expressed through the experience of my life. Not other stories I might like. Unfortunately unless validated :) in some way, I sense that you wont try to understand my honesty.    * Many of my friends have enjoyed a happy successful/unsuccessful time in the music business. The most talented often didnt make a cent or even want to ?   Remembered ?.. Haha.. the very best artists died paupers,often derided.   Only to be dscovered again by someone who might benefit from their discovery ?   We should smile and not forget that music is "Ours".   M.

* worn out. How do you keep up Tuga ? xD

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11 minutes ago, ziggy said:

I cannot detect melody in rap and hip hop, or musicianship.  Most metal has melody to a greater or lesser extent and the bands can play.

Your very mistaken.

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7 minutes ago, Nativebon said:

Your very mistaken.

So am I, then. But hey, you can call me that if you want ...

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33 minutes ago, ziggy said:

I cannot detect melody in rap and hip hop, or musicianship.  Most metal has melody to a greater or lesser extent and the bands can play.

This is what I call.... Minds stuck in the pass syndrome

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17 hours ago, tuga said:

Maybe this is not so obvious or true for people who grew up listening to them but In my opinion The Beatles recorded a lot of simplistic empty music during its early boys-band days.

Blasphemy,  you too @DomT.

With the release of their album, Rubber Soul, and the subsequent albums, they had few if any peers and their music transcended genre, space and time.

I'll hear no more on the matter.

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A DJ can do a lot of things: they can scratch, mix, mash up multiple tracks to create a new hybrid, which can be done live, 'on the fly'; they can also build an atmosphere which reciprocates with/responds to their audience over a given set. A good DJ is also a selector, digging out brilliant tunes, new and old. A DJ can also often be a music producer, bringing artists together and defining a particular sound or genre.

There are plenty about: as I've mentioned before, one of my favourites is Giles Peterson: DJ, selector, radio station and record label boss and producer. I've discovered lots of amazing stuff via him over the years.

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20 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

Blasphemy,  you too @DomT.

With the release of their album, Rubber Soul, and the subsequent albums, they had few if any peers and their music transcended genre, space and time.

I'll hear no more on the matter.

I am far too young to have grown up with the Beatles so would never appreciate the impact that they made vs pioneers from when I was growing up eg Gary Numan.  The Beatles wrote some great songs and I like a lot Wings and Paul Macartney stuff but compared to many many other great songwriters I am failing to see that they are the ‘only ones’ who are truly great. What about Stevie Wonder, Nile Rogers, David Bowie, Gary Numan, Kraftwerk, Earth Wind and Fire, ELO, BeeGees, Bill Nelson and many many others? 

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1 hour ago, Nativebon said:

This is what I call.... Minds stuck in the pass syndrome

I would call it taste ane appreciation of musical talent and standards.

My parents did not like my taste in music, but lack of melody was not an issue for them as it had a tune.   Times have changed.

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