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Zappa, the musicians musician. So good you need a proper education in musical theory to realise how good he was. Am reliably told nice guy but tyrant when with the mothers, one mistake sweary tirade, two mistakes look for a new band. 

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But not necessarily the best-written or best-constructed? tbh the notion of "well-produced hip-hop" strikes me as polishing a turd.

You've only got to listen to the output of Capitol radio to see how dire mainstream music is. The station only appears to have 4 records from what I can discern.  1. Boy? Whining to a guitar with

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These blokes new a thing or two about melody too-

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On 04/05/2021 at 19:09, audio_PHIL_e said:

Nothing wrong with 50 yo prog rock. I still like it.

And so do I , it's got melody , them guys  grew up in the 60's , I love all those bands but I do not like the Prog that came later , I'll put my tin hat on and say Steven Wilson can't right a tune , all that Porcupine Tree stuff is very clever and dramatic but there are no songs in there . Roger Waters talks his way through his songs but there is always a melody , a hook .

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Interesting. I allowed 70s prog back into my life a few years back. Some I still liked, some I didn’t. Having heard a lot about Porcupine Tree, I gave them a try and, like you, found them underwhelming 🙁

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19 hours ago, Frizbriz said:

Zappa, the musicians musician. So good you need a proper education in musical theory to realise how good he was. Am reliably told nice guy but tyrant when with the mothers, one mistake sweary tirade, two mistakes look for a new band. 

James Brown was a perfectionist apparently when it came to shows. He fined his band for their mistakes also. My friend toured with Edwin Starr & worked on the mixing desk. The whole crew & musicians were on the national minimum wage but were also taxed for anything short of his standards.  I think maybe he was lifting their game & teaching them what he knew ?  My friend loved seeing Europe & appreciated just how fine a musician Edwin was, but he would have liked a few more quid.:)

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13 minutes ago, Bazzer said:

And so do I , it's got melody , them guys  grew up in the 60's , I love all those bands but I do not like the Prog that came later , I'll put my tin hat on and say Steven Wilson can't right a tune , all that Porcupine Tree stuff is very clever and dramatic but there are no songs in there . Roger Waters talks his way through his songs but there is always a melody , a hook .

I like a lot of early Porcupine Tree stuff but I think their last 2 or 3 albums were quite weak. Stupid Dream is my favourite album, no shortage of tunes on that one IMO.  I've really struggled with his solo output, all very clever, technically good, well produced etc. but leaves me a bit cold. I never feel the need to play them very often if at all.

I was listening to In The Court Of The Crimson King the other day, now that's an album and a half.

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1 minute ago, DIB said:

I was listening to In The Court Of The Crimson King the other day, now that's an album and a half.

Yep the greatest Prog album , hard to believe it is a debut and recorded in 1969 , they set the bar high with that one .

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Yep the greatest Prog album , hard to believe it is a debut and recorded in 1969 , they set the bar high with that one .
I read a story about Jimi Hendrix going to one of their early gigs and saying it was the best band he'd ever seen or something.
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The Move were deemed to be one of the best live bands in Britain in the 60’s, an opinion voiced by many of their contemporaries. There’s a live album from the Marquee available on streaming and it certainly makes them sound tidy. Great tunes too!

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51 minutes ago, mr neds said:

Interesting. I allowed 70s prog back into my life a few years back. Some I still liked, some I didn’t. Having heard a lot about Porcupine Tree, I gave them a try and, like you, found them underwhelming 🙁

I had that happen to me with the Grateful Dead. Very highly regarded by many US listeners but I found them quite underwhelming.

I am going to give the Porcupine Tree, just for educational purposes. Who knows...

Maybe it's time give Zappa another chance too.

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I only really like the first few Mother's of Invention albums- never got into the scatalogical lyrics and guitar twiddling...........

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Going through my library I can only find one pop artist/band, The Divine Comedy.

As for Prog Rock I don't think I have much either, the best of Pink Floyd (not a big fan), Supertramp and Pearls Before Swine (not sure if that counts)...

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I've always thought prog rock was Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, maybe some Jethro Till eg Minstrel in the Gallery, spin offs like ELP, and the like. Some of it is just ridiculous while some is very sophisticated. For example the first proper album I heard was Lizard by KC which I liked very much, especially the hard jazzy breakdowns, but when I hear Yes or Genesis it often seems a bit comedic or just up it's own arse.

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On 09/05/2021 at 13:03, mr neds said:

The Move were deemed to be one of the best live bands in Britain in the 60’s, an opinion voiced by many of their contemporaries. There’s a live album from the Marquee available on streaming and it certainly makes them sound tidy. Great tunes too!

Roy Wood is a seriously talented multi-instrumentalist. Listen to Boulders.

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