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Superiority of Moode over Picoreplayer


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Posted (edited)

Screen shots from BubblepUPnP, to give an idea of the interface, should anyone be curious enough to try it. No going back to LMS for me, I"m afraid. I've not heard digital sounding this good before.

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Edited by Gizza
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On 05/05/2021 at 15:16, bencat said:

While looking at the Moode Audio Forum I came across a number of mentions of "Edward's Tweaks" having no idea what this meant I did a bit of digging and they appear to be the work of yes you guessed it Edward on improving sound and other settings in Derbian .

So this works with Moode Audio but it also equally works with any other distro that uses a Raspberry Pi . You need to be able to SSH in to your Pi Player and then copy and paste the Automated Install in to your Putty window. Now if all of that was just noise then would suggest that this sort of tweak is not for you .

I used this because i am always looking out for things and in this case there is an Automated Removal as well so if you hear anything you do not like then just remove it.

I find that that these tweaks do have a beneficial effect on the sound quality and raise things just a bit further . The music has a bit more go and separation is much better imaged in space . I like the result and will be leaving this in place . Interested if any one else has a go and what they find .

https://github.com/dynobot/Linux-Audio-Adjustments

Always keen to give things a whirl. I use LMS via Max2play and added this as per instruction (ssh and auto install).

Definite change of sound for the better, but I have no idea what it has done? I assume there is no indicator to show it working or anything?

Is there anything to adjust?

cheers anyway, will leave it installed for now

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21 minutes ago, hermano said:

Always keen to give things a whirl. I use LMS via Max2play and added this as per instruction (ssh and auto install).

Definite change of sound for the better, but I have no idea what it has done? I assume there is no indicator to show it working or anything?

Is there anything to adjust?

cheers anyway, will leave it installed for now

If you go to the thread aabout this on the Moode Forum there is more information and details of how you an change things . Sadly most of that is way over my head so I have just used it and let it get on with things . I find it sounds better so happy .

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Well with a few hours on my own with no ' what are you playing about with now ' I have installed Moode Player on all the various units I have around the house including a JustBoom Digi ,Just Boom Amp Hat and also the Allo Digi players. So the set up now is Max2play and LMS on my Raspberry Pi 8GB unit with the 2TB SSD HD attached this acts as the stand alone server and is powered by a Sean Jacobs LPSU . Now all of the players have all been converted to a Moode Player software but using Squeezelite in all of them so they just work as they always did through LMS . Sound for all of them has improved with bass information and texture being the area that seems to have made the most improvement . After that it is imaging and sound stage that has jumped forward with better seperation and placement .

Thanks to @Gizzafor the tip and for Ronnie for the sotto voice (you should know all about this by now) and he is right I should know lots more about all this than I do . But something about stumbling through and getting things wrong and then putting them right again gives me a bit of a buzz . I know that some will view this as why bother the Raspberry Pi is so small and puny it just can not sound any good but there are now more and more finding out that this is a really great sounding server and player offering some very real quality music . The plus on that is you can also play around and do things like this which cost nothing but time (and perhaps your sanity , but who does not want to be mad ?) and can be easily put back to the original settings . Much better than this ham fisted idiot trying to get his Turntable working again .

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40 minutes ago, bencat said:

Well with a few hours on my own with no ' what are you playing about with now ' I have installed Moode Player on all the various units I have around the house including a JustBoom Digi ,Just Boom Amp Hat and also the Allo Digi players. So the set up now is Max2play and LMS on my Raspberry Pi 8GB unit with the 2TB SSD HD attached this acts as the stand alone server and is powered by a Sean Jacobs LPSU . Now all of the players have all been converted to a Moode Player software but using Squeezelite in all of them so they just work as they always did through LMS . Sound for all of them has improved with bass information and texture being the area that seems to have made the most improvement . After that it is imaging and sound stage that has jumped forward with better seperation and placement .

Thanks to @Gizzafor the tip and for Ronnie for the sotto voice (you should know all about this by now) and he is right I should know lots more about all this than I do . But something about stumbling through and getting things wrong and then putting them right again gives me a bit of a buzz . I know that some will view this as why bother the Raspberry Pi is so small and puny it just can not sound any good but there are now more and more finding out that this is a really great sounding server and player offering some very real quality music . The plus on that is you can also play around and do things like this which cost nothing but time (and perhaps your sanity , but who does not want to be mad ?) and can be easily put back to the original settings . Much better than this ham fisted idiot trying to get his Turntable working again .

Sounds interesting. Forgive my ignorance, did you wipe max2play and install Moode instead? How do you get squeezelite and Moode together?

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Yes you need to format the SD card and install the Moode Audio distro on to the player . In the configeration of Moode you can then choose to activate a selection of Renders from Blootooth , Air Play and also Squeezelite .

In my case once I have set up the player with the relevant hat settings and then activated the Squeezelite option I find that I am not able to go back in to the Moode Audio page to change anything I just get a grey page with the option of turning Squeezelite off . No idea why this happens and unless I switch off Squeezelite then after the intial set up and configure there is no control via the Moode Audio option .

Not really an issue for me as once the player has been found on LMS I can control all the settings through LMS and can alter things to what I want . For actually playing and getting the players working that is always through LMS using Material Skin which I really love and enjoy with its additional features like Artist profile , Album review etc which is great .

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33 minutes ago, bencat said:

Well with a few hours on my own with no ' what are you playing about with now ' I have installed Moode Player on all the various units I have around the house including a JustBoom Digi ,Just Boom Amp Hat and also the Allo Digi players. So the set up now is Max2play and LMS on my Raspberry Pi 8GB unit with the 2TB SSD HD attached this acts as the stand alone server and is powered by a Sean Jacobs LPSU . Now all of the players have all been converted to a Moode Player software but using Squeezelite in all of them so they just work as they always did through LMS . Sound for all of them has improved with bass information and texture being the area that seems to have made the most improvement . After that it is imaging and sound stage that has jumped forward with better seperation and placement .

Thanks to @Gizzafor the tip and for Ronnie for the sotto voice (you should know all about this by now) and he is right I should know lots more about all this than I do . But something about stumbling through and getting things wrong and then putting them right again gives me a bit of a buzz . I know that some will view this as why bother the Raspberry Pi is so small and puny it just can not sound any good but there are now more and more finding out that this is a really great sounding server and player offering some very real quality music . The plus on that is you can also play around and do things like this which cost nothing but time (and perhaps your sanity , but who does not want to be mad ?) and can be easily put back to the original settings . Much better than this ham fisted idiot trying to get his Turntable working again .

Great result, Andrew. You're quite right,  people don't necessarily give the Pi a chance ( I didn't until recently) because it wasn't designed as dedicated audio product. The digital audio HATS have made it a serious contender as an audio streamer. I can't comment on its effectiveness as a streamer to a USB dac, but the Allo Digione and Digione Signature players are superb SPDIF outputting streamers.

I seriously did not expect to hear any difference from a Squeezebox Touch but they are in a different league altogether. The other advantage, as you say, is that you are able to experiment with various FREE open source Operating systems and things. It's obvious that software and implementation is as important as hardware.

With a streamer from a hifi manufacturer, you have to trust that they've got it right as you're stuck with it. We have been able to experiment quite easily and at zero or very little cost (the cost of a tenner or less in my case, for a spare microsd card and £3.99 or so for the BubbleUPnp app) and a bit of our time.

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26 minutes ago, hermano said:

Sounds interesting. Forgive my ignorance, did you wipe max2play and install Moode instead? How do you get squeezelite and Moode together?

Hermano, I'll post links to 3 youtube videos in a moment. You can take the bits of info you need from each one. Seriously, it's not that difficult. It's useful to have 1 or 2 spare Microsd cards, they're very cheap on Amazon for a 16gb Sandisk card. Once you've loaded an OS onto the Pi,vconfigured the settings and proved it's working how you want,cyou can shut the pi down, move the Card to a pc and download an image of it onto a .img file on your pc, as a backup, useful if your card gets corrupted (which apparently happens more easily with Moode if you don't shut it down properly before removing the card from the Pi). 

See my previous posts here about running Moode with BubbleUPnP and DNLA for the very best sound quality. although running with LMS still gives great results.

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@Gizza I use my Pi 4 into USB and it is superb, not sure the 3 is though, I think the 4 improved on the noise issues through usb on the 3. Also do you use the Sox resampling feature? If not it is worth exploring, you will find it under the mpd edit function. 

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Ok, videos that should help:-

If you struggle, let me know, I should be able to help you.

Cheers,

Gary.

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22 minutes ago, Gizza said:

Great result, Andrew. You're quite right,  people don't necessarily give the Pi a chance ( I didn't until recently) because it wasn't designed as dedicated audio product. The digital audio HATS have made it a serious contender as an audio streamer. I can't comment on its effectiveness as a streamer to a USB dac, but the Allo Digione and Digione Signature players are superb SPDIF outputting streamers.

I seriously did not expect to hear any difference from a Squeezebox Touch but they are in a different league altogether. The other advantage, as you say, is that you are able to experiment with various FREE open source Operating systems and things. It's obvious that software and implementation is as important as hardware.

With a streamer from a hifi manufacturer, you have to trust that they've got it right as you're stuck with it. We have been able to experiment quite easily and at zero or very little cost (the cost of a tenner or less in my case, for a spare microsd card and £3.99 or so for the BubbleUPnp app) and a bit of our time.

I use MoOde with a Stack Audio Link which has a Pi compute module and some fancy PSU circuitry, and the Pro-Ject streamer has a similar design. So you can get the advantage of using the excellent Pi software in more upmarket designs.

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2 minutes ago, greybeard said:

@Gizza I use my Pi 4 into USB and it is superb, not sure the 3 is though, I think the 4 improved on the noise issues through usb on the 3. Also do you use the Sox resampling feature? If not it is worth exploring, you will find it under the mpd edit function. 

Hi Colin, my Audio Synthesis Dac is SPDIF or AT&T input only, no USB, so not an option for me. The 4 is definitely better for USB output as the USB has been isolated from the Ethernet circuit. On the Pi 3's, noise from the ethernet polluted the USB circuit, allegedly.

I did try Ronnie's Pi 4b into his Khadas soundboard  Dac though. It sounded very good and is great VFM but it was outperformed by my Digione Signature and AS Dax discrete. Using Moode instead of Picoreplayer raised the bar again and the final improvement has been to stop the LMS renderer in Moode and instead, use UPnP and DNLA.  Music is now streamed direct from the Pi instead of via a networked LMS server. I guess something that might work just as well is running LMS on the Pi itself. I doubt whether my 1gb Pi 3b+ would cope though. Ronnie suggested 4Gb memory which would mean a Pi 4b.

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4 minutes ago, rdale said:

I use MoOde with a Stack Audio Link which has a Pi compute module and some fancy PSU circuitry, and the Pro-Ject streamer has a similar design. So you can get the advantage of using the excellent Pi software in more upmarket designs.

Interesting, they sound as though they would be very good streamers. 

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1 minute ago, Gizza said:

Interesting, they sound as though they would be very good streamers. 

I tried one and sent it back, read what you like into that :)

 

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24 minutes ago, greybeard said:

@Gizza I use my Pi 4 into USB and it is superb, not sure the 3 is though, I think the 4 improved on the noise issues through usb on the 3. Also do you use the Sox resampling feature? If not it is worth exploring, you will find it under the mpd edit function. 

Regarding the Sox, Colin, my dac automatically upsamples all sources to just over 700k, but it would probably be useful if you are feeding an NOS dac. I'm guessing I could use it to downsample anything above 96khz down to 96khz as that's as high as my SPDIF inputs will accept.

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