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28 minutes ago, Bigman80 said:

Just to point out, that BB3 was not made by me and was the result of the efforts of an enthusiastic DIY'er who participated in the DIY project of which the BB3 was born. IT looks like a BB3 but it cannot be deemed an official one. 

What’s the relevance in saying that Oli? You looked at it and it was built around the then design and you tweaked it and upgraded the Jfets
Ive said how good it was.  

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I have owned a EE Minimax phonostage for many years now (10+), and the biggest compliment I can pay it, is that i have never felt the need to change it. Retail today is £1495, I bought mine second han

I never put much thought into whether a stand alone ps was better than an integrated one, just that thinking back I have always gone for the former, so subconsciously at least it has been the case for

I'm afraid I don't buy the arguments about one case. You simply make it bigger, and use Mu Metal screening for the various sections. Many Japanese amps did this in early solid state days. Power supply

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I'm not running the thread in order to make a purchase Oliver. That is not the point. The point is for everyone who contributes and/or reads the thread is a little wiser than they were before.
What transpires here and at the phono stage bake off comparisons which will be published here (hopefully), may lead members to make informed decisions about upgrades or maybe they will stay as they are.
I'm actually perfectly happy with my Iota Signature and it suits the system well as its balanced only, as is the whole system. I wont be able to compare it with any others because I would have to use adaptors.
My second system will be unbalanced and I will use that for the comparisons. Then we will see what's what..
Thankyou for clearing up the business about the phono stage being under 'development'. I take your point...but I wasnt making one - I was the messenger only.
Jack
No I'm not trying to sell you one, I am saying if you want to establish what it does or doesn't do for yourself in Your own system, I'd be happy loan it to you. I don't believe Slav is in the market either.
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1 minute ago, Bigman80 said:

Just saying that I didn't build it. Which I didn't.

The relevance being that it's a DIY effort and not an official BB3.

I looked at it to make it safe (which it wasn't), upgraded the JFETs.

Just being clear about that particular unit rather than there be any confusion about its provenance.

If I had said it was crap I would understand but I’ve praised the design and sound? 
it still wasn’t necessary to say what you did. 
Yes, it was missing the fuse which you corrected but apart from that, it was fine as you stated. 
I won’t bother praising the BB anymore in fact I won’t buy another after your unnecessary comment 

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I’ve got an EAT E-Glo Petit which I’m really pleased with. It sounds great and has loads of adjustments you can make for both MM and MC cartridges. It has a very quiet jfet input stage and uses a couple of valves in the output buffer stage. I also upgraded the PSU to an MCRU linear one. Even with the uprated PSU it is well under 2000 pounds.

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3 hours ago, Juancho said:

'In analog history, nearly every commercial phono stage has been based on using RC filters to achieve RIAA equalization. An RC filter is one that uses resistors and capacitors to achieve each of the three 6db per octave "shelves" in the frequency response that constitute an RIAA correction. Most such RC-based RIAA networks require the use of a fairly high value resistor in series with the phono signal coming out of the first gain stage. And some require the use of at least one capacitor in series with the signal, as well. The advantage of an LCR network, used to achieve the exact same RIAA correction, is that it places only an inductor in series with the system, which has very low DC resistance compared to the resistor mandated in RC type RIAA networks. Capacitors and resistors are used as well, but all of these are in parallel with the signal, connected to ground. Theoretically that does less "damage" to the signal, where "damage" can mean different things to different audiophiles. Proponents of LCR type RIAA correction circuits believe that they sound better, pure and simple. However, implementing such a network presents a lot of problems to the designer. Thus = generally expensive.' My pseudo LCR uses novel circuitry to get the series resistance required down to similar levels to an LCR network (it's a bit more but same order of magnitude). Clients who've trialled both have generally preferred the pseudo version as being a bit more lively, having a bit more attack. It's probably a question of taste /system balance as the LCR version sounded sublime with a £50k record deck, Hashimoto H10 step ups, and a Radford /Tannoy combo

I agree 100% with using LC or even LR for the filter, I would love to design one, but getting the inductors built to the required quality is difficult and very expensive.

Jessica

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If I had said it was crap I would understand but I’ve praised the design and sound? 
it still wasn’t necessary to say what you did. 
Yes, it was missing the fuse which you corrected but apart from that, it was fine as you stated. 
I won’t bother praising the BB anymore in fact I won’t buy another after your unnecessary comment 
I'm not interested in falling out, so if my "clarity" offended, i apologise.


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5 minutes ago, Jessica_k said:

I agree 100% with using LC or even LR for the filter, I would love to design one, but getting the inductors built to the required quality is difficult and very expensive.

Jessica

Hashimoto and Silk both do 'off the shelf' suitable inductors. Dave Slagle will wind them, but you'll wait for ages. IIRC, one of the manufacturers actually offered a complete LCR module at one stage, but I can't remember who.

The Hashimoto are almost guaranteed to be excellent, but they're certainly not cheap. My Far East contact has never had any 'specials', and even with some levering, they'd not leave much change from £600 a pair with the VAT and shipping.

Not that it's insane money, but nearly £600 just for the RIAA equalisation is going to put the cost of the whole unit up a lot. I may consider it for a future DIY though.

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2 minutes ago, rabski said:

Hashimoto and Silk both do 'off the shelf' suitable inductors. Dave Slagle will wind them, but you'll wait for ages. IIRC, one of the manufacturers actually offered a complete LCR module at one stage, but I can't remember who.

The Hashimoto are almost guarantedd to be excellent, but they're certainly not cheap. My Far East contact has never had any 'specials', and even with some levering, they'd not leave much change from £600 a pair with the VAT and shipping.

Thanks, I will look at Silk, I like their products and if they have "off the shelf" as you say that I could use then I could look at designing a phono using them.

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6 minutes ago, Bigman80 said:

I'm not interested in falling out, so if my "clarity" offended, i apologise.

 

It’s not about clarity Oli it wasn’t necessary full stop. With exception to my BB, there are some pretty decent builders on this forum and maybe some better than you. It is a kit after all. 
let’s end the discussion now please. 

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It’s not about clarity Oli it wasn’t necessary full stop. With exception to my BB, there are some pretty decent builders on this forum and maybe some better than you. It is a kit after all.  let’s end the discussion now please.

Better than me? Probably, but not in this instance"WAS a kit" is more accurate. Removed from sale after the discovery of your BB3, the BB3 belonging to another, of which I had to totally rebuild, all from the same DIYer.

No need to get nasty, I've obviously upset you, for which I have apologised.

Consider the discussion ended

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For me, the phono stage just has to be considered as part of the whole amplification process. By that, I mean that there are no hard and fast rules about what is best. I went from a £4k phono stage with a £5k pre and £6k power to a Japanese vintage pre with integral, adjustable phono stage and its matching power amplifier and felt it better. I now use a 1970's Japanese integrated with a 3 input, self adjusting phono stage and don't feel I am missing out.

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3 minutes ago, Bigman80 said:

Better than me? Probably, but not in this instance

"WAS as kit" is more accurate. Removed from sale after the discovery of your BB3, the BB3 belonging to another, of which I had to totally rebuild, all from the same DIYer.

No need to get nasty, I've obviously upset you, for which I have apologised.

Consider the discussion ended emoji4.png

I’m not being nasty but I’m reacting to you arrogance and unnecessary comment. My BB3 wasn’t in the same class as the other one. It was missing the fuse carrier. 
I find it totally amazing that after I have praised the BB3 for its ability you feel it’s right to make pointless comments not related to the actual ability of the product!! Upset nah, I’ve got a pretty decent phonostage thanks 👍🏻
 

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I’m not being nasty but I’m reacting to you arrogance and unnecessary comment. My BB3 wasn’t in the same class as the other one. It was missing the fuse carrier. 
I find it totally amazing that after I have praised the BB3 for its ability you feel it’s right to make pointless comments not related to the actual ability of the product!! Upset nah, I’ve got a pretty decent phonostage thanks
 
So we aren't ending the discussion then?

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56 minutes ago, Bigman80 said:
58 minutes ago, Non-Smoking Man said:
I'm not running the thread in order to make a purchase Oliver. That is not the point. The point is for everyone who contributes and/or reads the thread is a little wiser than they were before.
What transpires here and at the phono stage bake off comparisons which will be published here (hopefully), may lead members to make informed decisions about upgrades or maybe they will stay as they are.
I'm actually perfectly happy with my Iota Signature and it suits the system well as its balanced only, as is the whole system. I wont be able to compare it with any others because I would have to use adaptors.
My second system will be unbalanced and I will use that for the comparisons. Then we will see what's what..
Thankyou for clearing up the business about the phono stage being under 'development'. I take your point...but I wasnt making one - I was the messenger only.
Jack

No I'm not trying to sell you one, I am saying if you want to establish what it does or doesn't do for yourself in Your own system, I'd be happy loan it to you. I don't believe Slav is in the market either.

I could be in the market for a good phono stage ;-) , I swapped prised by everyone Paradise stage for Aurorasound Vida because it was at least as good and way smaller than Paradise ,  if I like BB I would gladly get one . 
I’m in the process of building another Paradise stage - which is a bit different approach than anything else on the market but I’m going extra mile. when it comes to matching all components , read transistors so it would take a bit   , shame this shoot out is so soon as I could send it for evaluation . 

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