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cd transports


hifinutt
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Thanks for posting Phil, I always say there is a difference in sound with different dac's

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"The CD player is the master clock".

Interesting and makes sense.

Someone has finally explained how audible differences exist! 

I assume this also applies to streamers therefore, and would explain why some people claim to hear differences?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Psilonaught said:

"The CD player is the master clock".

Interesting and makes sense.

Someone has finally explained how audible differences exist! 

I assume this also applies to streamers therefore, and would explain why some people claim to hear differences?

Pff... Many people have been saying that for years. It's one of the reasons why single-box players had the potential to produce less jitter than two-box ones for years, and why some manufacturers came up with jitter "filters". I used one with my two-box Audio Alchemy since the mid '90s.

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S/PDIF can come in two flavours: electrical S/PDIF which uses a 75 Ohm coaxial with RCA plugs and optical TOSLINK (Toshiba Link). With the S/PDIF protocol the DAC has to rely on the word clock that's being generated and embedded into the signal by a potentially jittery source and transmited over a potentially jittery interface. For this reason many DACs underperform when S/PDIF is used when compared to their USB input. Some modern DACs perform as well with electrical S/PDIF as they do with USB. For some reason TOSLINK generally produces the worst levels of jitter.

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1 hour ago, Blzebub said:

I covet a femtoclock.

A twemcoclock is a lot cooler...

51Aic7Pye-L._AC_SX679_.jpg

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6 hours ago, antonio66 said:

Thanks for posting Phil, I always say there is a difference in sound with different dac's

Aren't you trying to say is that there can be differences (due to jitter) when using different transports into a DAC which doesn't reclock it's S/PDIF input?

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Not all transport/dac interfaces are s/pdif.

In my system it's AES/EBU 110 ohm, with one cable for each channel.

A master clock is used to synchronise the clocks in each box in an attempt to minimise the jitter that could occur.

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Depends on the DAC. The method of transmission is irrelevant as to whether the DAC reclocks internally, and whether it relies on the signal from the transport. If the DAC has asynchronous USB and/or asynchronous sample rate conversion also uses an internal clock.

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1 hour ago, tuga said:

For this reason many DACs underperform when S/PDIF is used when compared to their USB input.

But USB does not have error correction, just detection as reported by Gordon Rankin: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/20226-gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-usb-cable-sound/

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53 minutes ago, George 47 said:

But USB does not have error correction, just detection as reported by Gordon Rankin: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/20226-gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-usb-cable-sound/

What do you think that translates into in real life using an optimised computer and software playback system?

George writes that "Since USB receivers have no error correction (this was news to me) a dropped bit gets interpolated at the DAC, and distortion increases."

What kind of distortion is Rankin referring to, there are many types? And I'm sure it has been or can measured, it's a matter of comparing USB and S/PDIF performance of one same DAC.

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Small addition, I am George but not the George referred to in Tuga's quote. Good name though.

Gordon Rankin is quite good at this lark......having been involved with it for some decades and also being the inventor of asynchronous USB which some say brought computer audio into the high end. 

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I use an apple disc drive that feeds into my network bridge via USB so no power supply.  It utilises the clock in the bridge before going through a Nos dac via spdif. The resulting sound  has most definitely surprised me.  Is it not just how well all things are implemented in the chain that determines the sound quality, whether it be Spdif or USB ?  I didnt expect it to sound as good as it does, and wonder if the disc drive, which floats on a puck is improved also ?

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11 hours ago, antonio66 said:

Thanks for posting Phil, I always say there is a difference in sound with different dac's

Sorry, actually meant cd transports and not dac's, although I can hear a difference with dac's as well.

4 hours ago, tuga said:

Aren't you trying to say is that there can be differences (due to jitter) when using different transports into a DAC which doesn't reclock it's S/PDIF input?

No I'm not Tuga, I went with my brother to listen to cd transports, we took his dCS Rossini and there was definitely a difference

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