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Puritan Mains Cables


George 47

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22 hours ago, CnoEvil said:

If I enjoy my system more, as a result of it sounding better- as a result of adding a Power Cable - I am now going to have to wrap my head around the fact that this difference is not an Improvement, but a Positive effect.

Damn, this HiFi lark is complicated.

Adding a placebo effect like a pretty power cable  really works on those that don't realise it does nothing. It's like driving a clean car instead of a dirty one. 

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Just now, Muckplaster said:

Adding a placebo effect like a pretty power cable  really works on those that don't realise it does nothing. It's like driving a clean car instead of a dirty one. 

It certainly gives you (and your doppelganger TrevC) a reason to be on a HiFi forum.

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4 hours ago, CnoEvil said:

It certainly gives you (and your doppelganger TrevC) a reason to be on a HiFi forum.

Not sure what you mean about my doppelganger, but it doesn't hurt to inject some science into the conversation  now and again. 

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9 minutes ago, Muckplaster said:

Not sure what you mean about my doppelganger...

He fights the good fight over on WHF - almost exclusively appearing only on Cable threads, with pithy comments.

You should introduce yourself, as I think you'd get on famously.

Edited by CnoEvil
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27 minutes ago, Muckplaster said:

Not sure what you mean about my doppelganger, but it doesn't hurt to inject some science into the conversation  now and again. 

Please can you provide references/links to your scientific sources? I don't mean just some sort of general idea about what science might have to say on the subject, I mean actual scientific papers which support your (clearly passionately held) opinions.

Your posts don't seem particularly scientific, if I may be so bold. They're more like those of a religious fanatic who heard something once and it fitted so well with his already formed view of the world that he became radicalised and quickly forgot the actual religion he was supposed to be evangelising about and just got on with some evangelising. All in the name of protecting the naive for their own good of course. All well-meant but ultimately patronising.

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4 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Please can you provide references/links to your scientific sources? I don't mean just some sort of general idea about what science might have to say on the subject, I mean actual scientific papers which support your (clearly passionately held) opinions.

Your posts don't seem particularly scientific, if I may be so bold. They're more like those of a religious fanatic who heard something once and it fitted so well with his already formed view of the world that he became radicalised and quickly forgot the actual religion he was supposed to be evangelising about and just got on with some evangelising. All in the name of protecting the naive for their own good of course. All well-meant but ultimately patronising.

It's the religious fanatics that believe that mains cables can change performance when it's the science that tells us that isn't possible. What does the puritan cable do to the AC power to make it change performance when compared to the stock cable? 

Explain how, in scientific terms, how mains cables can affect performance. How can there be a  difference between the standard fit cables supplied and this puritan thing?.

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1 hour ago, Muckplaster said:

It's the religious fanatics that believe that mains cables can change performance when it's the science that tells us that isn't possible. What does the puritan cable do to the AC power to make it change performance when compared to the stock cable? 

Explain how, in scientific terms, how mains cables can affect performance. How can there be a  difference between the standard fit cables supplied and this puritan thing?.

To be fair, there is plenty of proven science behind cable effects. In some situations (high power transmission, high voltage, high frequency, etc.) the effects of cables and different cable construction are extremely important and can make massive differences. On the other hand, the extent to which the known effects could make substantive differences in domestic audio is a different matter.

The science supports more the suggestions of 'cable believers' than 'cable non-believers', so I certainly wouldn't go relying on 'science' to back up the suggestion that cables can't have any effect.

I only trust my ears and my measurements. My ears tell me that some cables seem to make a difference. I can discount expectation bias and most other psychological influences, because I make my own stuff, would never spend serious money on cables, and hence don't care either way. However, my audio memory is as poor as everyone elses, so I wouldn't like to say for certain. All I do know for certain is that the mains, signal and speaker cables I use (together with all internal wiring) sure as hell won't be making anything worse.

Edited by rabski
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1 hour ago, Muckplaster said:

It's the religious fanatics that believe that mains cables can change performance when it's the science that tells us that isn't possible. What does the puritan cable do to the AC power to make it change performance when compared to the stock cable? 

Explain how, in scientific terms, how mains cables can affect performance. How can there be a  difference between the standard fit cables supplied and this puritan thing?.

Where does science say it isn’t possible? The problem is simple. No one is suggesting that mains somehow changes character any more than suggesting zeros and ones change. They don’t. But any connection point to the outside allows things in and out other than 240v at 50hz. That is the scientific basis. What is unscientific is the suggestion that these cables are universally beneficial. 

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Science doesn't prohibit many things but that doesn't mean science supports them either. It would require a scientifically valid test of the proposition to claim support either way.

Regards Andrew 

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13 minutes ago, Cable Monkey said:

What is unscientific is the suggestion that these cables are universally beneficial.

Who suggested that?

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2 hours ago, Muckplaster said:

It's the religious fanatics that believe that mains cables can change performance when it's the science that tells us that isn't possible.

Clearly, you are selective in the science you read. And a member of a church even though you would never be a member of a church. You're preaching instead of listening (metaphorically and literally).

2 hours ago, Muckplaster said:

What does the puritan cable do to the AC power to make it change performance when compared to the stock cable? 

It's double-(at least, I think) shielded. That does nothing to the electrickery passing through it but does massively reduce the noise from the mains cable reaching signal cables.

This is both (a) scientifically logical and (b) quickly evident from listening to an unshielded cable vs eg. a Puritan shielded one.

You could have bought mine off me at a mere £60 to hear or not hear this for yourself, and then sold it on at no loss. But someone beat you to it.

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1 hour ago, Cable Monkey said:

That is the scientific basis. What is unscientific is the suggestion that these cables are universally beneficial. 

I don't think anyone has claimed this. Some electronics and some signal cables may be more readily effected by noise than others, and some electrickery supplies (at the sharp end) might be dirtier/noisier than others due to a host of factors including other devices (wahsing machines, microwaves, etc) plugged in on the same mains.

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2 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Clearly, you are selective in the science you read. And a member of a church even though you would never be a member of a church. You're preaching instead of listening (metaphorically and literally).

It's double-(at least, I think) shielded. That does nothing to the electrickery passing through it but does massively reduce the noise from the mains cable reaching signal cables.

This is both (a) scientifically logical and (b) quickly evident from listening to an unshielded cable vs eg. a Puritan shielded one.

You could have bought mine off me at a mere £60 to hear or not hear this for yourself, and then sold it on at no loss. But someone beat you to it.

This is not science either. It's just a scientific just so story. Regards Andrew 

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Just now, andrew s said:

This is not science either. It's just a scientific just so story. Regards Andrew 

Which part is not science?

Have you tried shielded vs non-shielded mains cables? Or is your assertion a so-what story?

Regards, Nigel (it's important to stay polite)

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For it to be science you would need to show through experiment that the shielding  works as you suggest and without it noise from an unshielded mains cable is picked up by the signal cables.  In addition as has been claimed the two cases can make an audible difference needs to be tested in a scientifically valid listening test (I.e. blind to the change).

Science is a hard task master. 

I did not make an assertion other than it's not science which I have just given my reasons for above.

I don't know if it's a real issue or not. I am not aware of any scientific study on the topic.

What I belive might be the case is irrelevant to science.

Regards Andrew 

Edited by andrew s
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