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SO2 - what effect does the third speaker location option have?


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Perhaps one for @Simon at Grammo ?

The third placement option is “My speakers are in their practical location and I’m unable to determine their ideal location” (or words to that effect)

I’ve often wondered what SO2 then does with this. It sounds to good to be true that it calculates a “best guess” at the ideal location based on room dimensions. But perhaps it does?

Anyone know?

’troll

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There is a good post from Philbo about this but Tapatalk search doesn't work properly - try searching for "boundary optimisation" on the actual forum site? Tapatalk returns everything mentioning eithe

I did, but it didn’t answer the question I had asked - I’ve gone back to them. edit - however, I think I may now have the answer. This was the Helpdesk response: Thank you for your e-ma

Email fired off to Colin and Richard at Linn. Let’s see what they say. ’troll

No idea, but out of my laziness I have my conservatory and bedroom systems setup like this and they both benefitted somewhat.

The old Mordaunt Short MS812’s in my bedroom sound much better than they have any right to with this option in SO! Only £60 off eBay 10 years ago!

The 3rd option is the Linn Elf’s sneak in during the night and just magic it…

The conservatory has measured Linn speakers so I should try… But the Komponent 110’s come with wall brackets. So, they probably need to be closer to the wall than is possible due to the conservatory’s dwarf wall…

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I understood the significant measures to be the distances from boundaries - floor, wall, ceiling - and to listener.  Obviously the room dimensions dictate where modes/nodes are - that’s been long understood.  The port location, if applicable affects the tuning that SO offers if your speaker is on the list.  Thereafter the toe-in, room construction aspects, and temperature etc are presumably somewhat secondary. 

I’m as curious to know what telling SO your preferred position does.  Perhaps SO says:- “Aha, if you like that, try this for size!”

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There is a good post from Philbo about this but Tapatalk search doesn't work properly - try searching for "boundary optimisation" on the actual forum site? Tapatalk returns everything mentioning either word, even with quotes

Room optimisation: Always done, frequencies below 80Hz. Fixing room modes taking into account the positions of the speakers and listener.

Boundary optimisation: Works below 200Hz. Only done if both ideal and practical positions entered and you say that the speakers are in the practical position. Looks at reflected sound reaching the listener from walls close to the speaker. If those sound would be louder in the practical position because the speaker is closer to a wall, attenuates the appropriate frequencies to make it sound more like the ideal position.

The above is my simplified recollection of what Philbo explained...

Here it is:

https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/136868-space-optimisaton-v1-virtual-tune-dem/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-2454011

So if you choose only practical or only ideal position, no boundary optimisation

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Just a related note. I believe un-measured 3rd party speakers should have port bungs inserted for use with SO.

SO treats un-know/un-measured speakers as point sources, so you must keep it simple. The port is a second source and boundary reinforcement is particularly strong on rear ported speakers in most practical settings.

My MS812’s are bunged to the rear and, as above, exceed expectations. 

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Posted (edited)

Good opening Moomintroll, and greetings from Moomin's home country! 

I've actually always used the third option only with SO. It has worked so well that I have seen no need to try the other two options. I did once experiment with speaker placement more thoroughly and calculated the second option but to me it sounded worse than the practical only so I let it be. Now after I saw this thread I decided to try the first option, Ideal position only. So I put the exact same settings I have on the Practical window to Ideal window and calculated. It's quite close to Practical but there is a difference. I need to do a lot more testing but good first impression. Not sure why I've never tried this before... 

Edited by Patu
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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Patu said:

Good opening Moomintroll, and greetings from Moomin's home country! 

Having grown up in Japan, I know Moomin's home to be Finland.

I have been scratching my head about this third option for forever it seems. It could only affect boundary conditions. The only way it could do that would be to assume some ideal location. So perhaps it does just this by assuming a minimum ideal distance from speaker to boundaries, and then making the adjustment.

Or perhaps it does nothing over option 1; Speakers in ideal location. It just occurred to me that in order to capture all possible scenarios around speaker positioning, an option of, paraphrasing; "This is where my speakers are, and I have no idea with this ideal location stuff is all about" would be needed. Or else, some would be left with no option as neither of the first two would apply.

Edited by akamatsu
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9 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Yes, I suspect I’m going to have to resort to the Helpdesk…

’troll

Please do. It could potentially give the bald spot on my head a chance to regrow some hair. My final guess is it does nothing over option 1.

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Email fired off to Colin and Richard at Linn. Let’s see what they say.

’troll

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8 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Email fired off to Colin and Richard at Linn. Let’s see what they say.

’troll

Do you, or anyone else out there venture to have a guess?

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13 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

Do you, or anyone else out there venture to have a guess?

My assumption is that it does the same as with “Ideal”, so it just does what it can with the placement. However, my interest arose because someone on a Facebook group asked about “using the option to just let SO sort it all out” Given that person was a dealer (and I haven’t had a reply back, yet) I thought I’d raise the subject here.

’troll

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4 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

My assumption is that it does the same as with “Ideal”, so it just does what it can with the placement. However, my interest arose because someone on a Facebook group asked about “using the option to just let SO sort it all out” Given that person was a dealer (and I haven’t had a reply back, yet) I thought I’d raise the subject here.

’troll

By "sort it all out" it sounds like he thinks that SOV2 determines the ideal location. If this were the case, it would be quite a feature.

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After rereading this and the linked topic to Philbo’s post for the 20st time, can someone please explain to me what is not understood and why the helpdesk is needed?   
 

Third placement gives: room mode optimisation and Time of flight. I’m I correct or is this not under discussion? 
 

Also thanks @Moomintroll for opening Pandora’s box again 🥳
 

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