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7 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

Haven’t you answered your own question here? If Linn supplied cables, what length would they need to be to be usable by everyone and, as you say, Connectix manufactures patch leads that meet Linn’s requirements for a few pounds. 
 

‘troll

When I bought my Chord Electronics stuff it came with a cables starter pack so there was no need to buy any extra cables. Sonos also supplies an Ethernet lead. I had this is mind. Linn supplies ICs with its amps and mains leads. So I thought a Linn cable pack may be a nice addition.

I hadn't really thought about length, but you are right folk may want 0.5m, 1m, 6m, 10m if perhaps even longer so perhaps better to give a recommendation and let folk source their own. 

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2 hours ago, SeeSaw said:

I know very little about optical Ethernet transmission but, for my ignorance, why should that be the case? Presumably optical can carry noise along with the 0’s and 1’s the same as other digital transmission mechanisms? Or not?.....

If I understand correctly the theory is copper wire can act as an aerial and pick radio frequency interference or electromagnetic interference - you can certainly detect this on electrical patch leads. Contrariwise a fibre glass cable will not pick up this interference. It may introduce jitter, but the transmission protocols used together with buffering and re-clocking overcome this. That said not all optical patch leads are equal and can be a bit fussy about going around a bend. 

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7 hours ago, SeeSaw said:

I know very little about optical Ethernet transmission but, for my ignorance, why should that be the case? Presumably optical can carry noise along with the 0’s and 1’s the same as other digital transmission mechanisms? Or not?.....

Not. It's a little laser flashing on and off at a single wavelength (frequency). The noise that can (theoretically) be carried by wired Ethernet is high frequency electrical signals. 

Ethernet itself is a serious of layered protocols that includes the hardware of the link, rather than a cable or a simple 'signal'. There are those here who know what they are taking about on this subject though and I am not what one then, so I will shut up! 

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On 31/05/2021 at 02:58, Nrwatson said:

I thought the same tried optical Ethernet  from my Melco switch and the normal Ethernet into the new KDSM and the normal was noticeably better the whole thing gets more and more confusing was hoping to sell off my chord cable so bias towards optical but no such luck

Assuming you have the Melco S100, have you tried running optical to the switch and then copper to the KDSM? 

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On 31/05/2021 at 11:32, peter@57m said:

Well in could be the optical circuit at the NGDSM or at the Melco switch.  Need another owner to try this

I have a Melco S100 and have this on order https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/products/opticalmodule?variant=16612633837602 and will be inserting it between my router and the S100 and will then use copper to either my KDSM/2 or NGKDSM if I get it in the next couple of weeks (I can't find it now, but this is how Melco recommends using optical - fiber to the switch, copper from the 100M outputs to the streamer).

I'll provide some feedback once it is all set up. 

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53 minutes ago, 7ryder said:

 this is how Melco recommends using optical - fiber to the switch, copper from the 100M outputs to the streamer).

That's interesting to know - didn't realise that

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1 hour ago, 7ryder said:

Assuming you have the Melco S100, have you tried running optical to the switch and then copper to the KDSM? 

Yes have the switch S100 currently run a optical cable into Melco from the internet then from Melco to NGDSM with a cord cable 

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I am sorry but the manual says the optical connects to the network player

B65FE122-84AB-4148-B664-8797F71E3998.thumb.png.5f64e7ec3b437feda89e97f6c6377dba.png

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Interesting, it doesn’t say that in the Quick Setup Guide…

                                              
‘troll

6FE344E4-A018-420D-BAE6-88AC71765EC0.png

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Posted (edited)
On 01/06/2021 at 19:38, Nestor Turton said:

If I understand correctly the theory is copper wire can act as an aerial and pick radio frequency interference or electromagnetic interference - you can certainly detect this on electrical patch leads. Contrariwise a fibre glass cable will not pick up this interference. It may introduce jitter, but the transmission protocols used together with buffering and re-clocking overcome this. That said not all optical patch leads are equal and can be a bit fussy about going around a bend. 

A copper wire might not only pick up signals but also transmit (unwanted) signals, which are picked up by other wires / devices. When I worked in the defense industry 20+ yrs ago, we had an EMC test chamber, where the equipment was tested for compromising radiation, and classified wrt an ITSEC zone model. Commercial-off-the-shelf equipment like CRTs, keyboards, etc often had to be hardened in order to meet the requirements. My takeaway: Any electrical device is a potential source of trouble, once the power is on.

Edited by TooManyCatweazles
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  • 1 month later...

I'm interested in this topic because I'm considering getting a Melco S100.

I like how there are separate ports for the network player and the NAS.

But the main reason would be for the SFP connections to use with the NGKDSM.

And if the optical connection is not as good as traditional ethernet, then you'd have to question why choose a S100 over, say, an English Electric?

Grateful for your opinions.

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I have been reading this thread with interest and trying to figure out what possible benefit I could get by purchasing a Melco S100 (or any other expensive switch). I have a fairly standard network with a BT Router and 8 port switch. I have no issues (that I can hear) with noise being transfered from my Router/Switch to my ADSM/3K. As I type this, I am looking out my rear window at a BT telegraph pole at the bottom of my garden some 50 yards from my house. From this pole, copper cable is strung across my garden to the eaves of my house. It hen travels 20 feet to my cellar, a further 40 feet under my floorboard to the front of the house and up to my BT wall socket. From the wall socket is the thinnest (and probably cheapest) length of 2 core cable that goes to my router. I am at a loss as to how anything I put after this cable, can improve what comes down the cable. I can listen to a track on Qobuz (down the rubbish copper cable) or a rip of the same track from my NAS and not hear any difference. No timing issues, no interference, no line noise, nothing. I have tried cat 5, cat 6 and cat 8 lan cables, and again, nothing. Cheap lan cables and expensive ones. Nothing.

If Qobuz can send me a perfect stream of my favourite track, from wherever in the world it is based, through various countries broadband infrastrures, along the cheapest of copper wire into my house, how can spending £2k on a fancy network switch improve this stream?

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1 hour ago, Billz said:

I have been reading this thread with interest and trying to figure out what possible benefit I could get by purchasing a Melco S100 (or any other expensive switch). I have a fairly standard network with a BT Router and 8 port switch. I have no issues (that I can hear) with noise being transfered from my Router/Switch to my ADSM/3K. As I type this, I am looking out my rear window at a BT telegraph pole at the bottom of my garden some 50 yards from my house. From this pole, copper cable is strung across my garden to the eaves of my house. It hen travels 20 feet to my cellar, a further 40 feet under my floorboard to the front of the house and up to my BT wall socket. From the wall socket is the thinnest (and probably cheapest) length of 2 core cable that goes to my router. I am at a loss as to how anything I put after this cable, can improve what comes down the cable. I can listen to a track on Qobuz (down the rubbish copper cable) or a rip of the same track from my NAS and not hear any difference. No timing issues, no interference, no line noise, nothing. I have tried cat 5, cat 6 and cat 8 lan cables, and again, nothing. Cheap lan cables and expensive ones. Nothing.

If Qobuz can send me a perfect stream of my favourite track, from wherever in the world it is based, through various countries broadband infrastrures, along the cheapest of copper wire into my house, how can spending £2k on a fancy network switch improve this stream?

I agree with all you say. If the last element in the chain sends your DAC a bit perfect stream it can't be improved apron by definition. However, it and any connecting cable may in addition to the signal deliver noise to your DAC ( or whatever).

It seems some equipment is better than others at ensuring the noise does not impact the resultant audio signal. I tried in my system but failed to induce an rf problem others with different equipment hear issue easily. It could, of course, be just our ears?

Regards Andrew 

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35 minutes ago, andrew s said:

I agree with all you say. If the last element in the chain sends your DAC a bit perfect stream it can't be improved apron by definition. However, it and any connecting cable may in addition to the signal deliver noise to your DAC ( or whatever).

It seems some equipment is better than others at ensuring the noise does not impact the resultant audio signal. I tried in my system but failed to induce an rf problem others with different equipment hear issue easily. It could, of course, be just our ears?

Regards Andrew 

Or the thing between them?

’troll

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