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Couple or decouple speakers?


Ceko
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1 minute ago, TheFlash said:

Indeed. The decision is rarely determined primarily by the speakers, it is almost always determined by the substance beneath the speakers which you would be coupling to/decoupling from*

*yes, I do appreciate that a proposition is not something one should end a sentence with :)

.......but it is something you could end a marriage with :minikev:

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2 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

.......but it is something you could end a marriage with :minikev:

Corrected!

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Those Wilko stuff looks very good. Hope to find something like that stone in the correct size, or maybe someone who can cut it.

As for the wooden bases of the Klipsch, I plan on removing them. They’re just regular philips screws holding them on their place I believe.

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8 hours ago, DomT said:

You know that some scientific discoveries were discovered by accident. Whilst we are not in that realm it is ok to just keep experimenting and see what works; not everyone has your brain. This is especially important given postings above and as there is no database of information about what works between each individual speaker and different floor types. HiFi really could do with a decent data set!

Yes, but usually by scientists. :geek:

E.g. penicillin.

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7 hours ago, tuga said:

Yes, but usually by scientists. :geek:

E.g. penicillin.

But not by scientists trying to discover that thing, as you note. Scientists take a rigorously structured approach to experimentation of course, but if they narrowed their field of view to the hypothesis in hand then the "side effects" of say penicillin would not have been noted and pursued. Scientists set up an experiment to test whether A has a positive, correlated, predictive effect on B but good ones will widen their vision to the impact on C, D etc. This is why scientists and non-scientists alike should be careful not to read the measurements beloved of a certain website (let's call it MeasurementsRUs) and think the numbers tell them everything there is to know. The numbers tell a lot of course, and are incredibly useful in spotting flawed performance, but at the other end of the scale they don't tell you when you'll hear magic!

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7 hours ago, tuga said:

Yes, but usually by scientists. :geek:

E.g. penicillin.

Another accidental discovery is Viagra, by the way: supposedly a heart drug but with er, interesting, "side effects" which with refinement, dosage adjustments etc became the intended effect. You can imagine the clinical trials, can't you...

  • any other effects you've noticed, sir?
  • Er well, this is a little embarrassing and probably not connected but <drops trousers>.
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1 hour ago, TheFlash said:

But not by scientists trying to discover that thing, as you note. Scientists take a rigorously structured approach to experimentation of course, but if they narrowed their field of view to the hypothesis in hand then the "side effects" of say penicillin would not have been noted and pursued. Scientists set up an experiment to test whether A has a positive, correlated, predictive effect on B but good ones will widen their vision to the impact on C, D etc. This is why scientists and non-scientists alike should be careful not to read the measurements beloved of a certain website (let's call it MeasurementsRUs) and think the numbers tell them everything there is to know. The numbers tell a lot of course, and are incredibly useful in spotting flawed performance, but at the other end of the scale they don't tell you when you'll hear magic!

I agree. Measurements are insufficient to characterise overall performance but the aspects which they quantify are done so a lot more accurately. There is no way around it, measurements and critical (objective) listening need to be used together for a more accurate assessment.

But critical listening, unlike tasting for preference, requires adequate methodology and proper training.

It has already been demonstrated by Toole’s research that trained listeners are not only more demanding of accuracy but also better at spotting the differences and more shortcomings.

For her DPhil my wife had to be trained in MRI and then Lear how to spot cerebral vascular disease and all her analysis was cross-referenced with that of two other “spotters” in order to be considered valid.

We audiophiles can say that I think or it looks like I can hear a difference but we cannot make a claim without hard proof and repeatability.

Also we are mostly driven by taste and that can and often does lead into lower accuracy in the reproduction of the signal. And unlike engineers which can make educated guesses we often go on hunch and hearsay.

But maybe that matters little when the end goal is to enjoy the ride and achieve a pleasing “presentation”.

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25 minutes ago, tuga said:

I agree. Measurements are insufficient to characterise overall performance but the aspects which they quantify are done so a lot more accurately. There is no way around it, measurements and critical (objective) listening need to be used together for a more accurate assessment.

....

But maybe that matters little when the end goal is to enjoy the ride and achieve a pleasing “presentation”.

Which it has to for all of us; whether we enjoy strict and maximum accuracy or enjoy a flavour, the key principle of hifi is that it is for enjoyment! I can;'t imagine any audiophile saying "the sonic presentation of my system is hugely impressive with high levels of detail; I don't listen to it much because I don't enjoy it, but it's definitely the best it can be".

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7 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Which it has to for all of us; whether we enjoy strict and maximum accuracy or enjoy a flavour, the key principle of hifi is that it is for enjoyment! I can;'t imagine any audiophile saying "the sonic presentation of my system is hugely impressive with high levels of detail; I don't listen to it much because I don't enjoy it, but it's definitely the best it can be".

I suppose that helmless experimentation may lead us there at times but I think that most if not all would adjust course accordingly. (I’ve been there myself)

On the other hand I would expect most engineers to trace a route towards a design goal and stick to it no matter.

Some “audio tailors” may prefer to steer by ear instead of relying on instruments...

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A Wam Show is one great ear-led helmless experiment! Listen to 40 completely diverse systems playing different music under out-of-controlled conditions in nin-ideal rooms with absolutely no scientific rigour or structure... and learn a lot about what may or may not merit closer personal attention. 

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1 hour ago, TheFlash said:

A Wam Show is one great ear-led helmless experiment! Listen to 40 completely diverse systems playing different music under out-of-controlled conditions in nin-ideal rooms with absolutely no scientific rigour or structure... and learn a lot about what may or may not merit closer personal attention. 

Ah yes we are making some changes this year. On entry everyone will be a given a clean white coat and a clip-board with a crayon. This will contain a complete set of 42 questions. These questions will lead to a consistent analysis for sound quality. The questions will be analysed for consistency and accuracy and if any answers are wrong a short sharp electrical shock will be injected into the receiver lab-coat, until you get it right. No answers given, so get it right.

The music will be ultra-high quality and the same in every room. We have Diana Krall 74, Johny Mathis farting in the bath,  garage doors slamming and a 21-minute Peruvian nose flute symphony in F#.

Of course, as alcohol impairs your audio perception, it is banned. Curry contains many strange and unusual chemicals substances (well it does in the local curry house) so that will also be banned. A clean, clear mind and body are vital for audio assessment. 

We are expecting record crowds as a result of these changes and think that all 3 of you will enjoy this wonderful experiment   Show.

Ah no. Peter says no lab coats, no clipboard, no electrical shocks, alcohol and curries are encouraged. Damn, no science you lot. Hope you all need penicillin as that was an accident dressed up as science. And he did not use any cable lifters.

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15 minutes ago, George 47 said:

Ah yes we are making some changes this year. On entry everyone will be a given a clean white coat and a clip-board with a crayon. This will contain a complete set of 42 questions. These questions will lead to a consistent analysis for sound quality. The questions will be analysed for consistency and accuracy and if any answers are wrong a short sharp electrical shock will be injected into the receiver lab-coat, until you get it right. No answers given, so get it right.

The music will be ultra-high quality and the same in every room. We have Diana Krall 74, Johny Mathis farting in the bath,  garage doors slamming and a 21-minute Peruvian nose flute symphony in F#.

Of course, as alcohol impairs your audio perception, it is banned. Curry contains many strange and unusual chemicals substances (well it does in the local curry house) so that will also be banned. A clean, clear mind and body are vital for audio assessment. 

We are expecting record crowds as a result of these changes and think that all 3 of you will enjoy this wonderful experiment   Show.

Ah no. Peter says no lab coats, no clipboard, no electrical shocks, alcohol and curries are encouraged. Damn, no science you lot. Hope you all need penicillin as that was an accident dressed up as science. And he did not use any cable lifters.

If it wasn’t too early I’d suggest alcohol and a dodgy curry were involved in the creation of this post, George!

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2 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

If it wasn’t too early I’d suggest alcohol and a dodgy curry were involved in the creation of this post, George!

Alcohol couples you to the music. Curry couples you to the toilet. :geek:

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