Jump to content

ATC SCM 11 on home demo - thoughts


DomT
 Share

Recommended Posts

Presumably you can add the room to that equation, so some speakers might suit some rooms (and ears) more than others.

I've no idea why anyone would argue against someone having different preferences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

It is not the detail level that is usually complained about - but the way that detail is presented.

Exactly this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

Presumably you can add the room to that equation, so some speakers might suit some rooms (and ears) more than others.

I've no idea why anyone would argue against someone having different preferences.

There are people in this world who will pick an argument with their own shadows …..

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Blzebub said:

The concept of "musicality" is not helpful. Nobody can define it, nor agree on what it is.

A speaker which distorts the signal as little as possible will sound "musical", assuming the recording did.

Musicality is not helpful to You.

I can define what it means to me - which is to do with the Timbre of Orchestral Instruments, the realism of how Orchestras/Soloists actually sound; whether it produces a sound that is engaging, authentic, believable and relays the intention of the musicians.

Generally, but not exclusively, any Musician, or anyone who has played an instrument, or gone to classical concerts, knows instinctively what it is.

It is a subjective judgement that cannot be measured with an oscilloscope or plotted on a graph....but then Music is part of the Arts - and so plays to the Right Hand side of the brain.

Here is how it is described in the Stereophile Glossary:

musical, musicality A personal judgment as to the degree to which reproduced sound resembles live music. Real musical sound is both accurate and euphonic, consonant and dissonant.

Edited by CnoEvil
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

Presumably you can add the room to that equation, so some speakers might suit some rooms (and ears) more than others.

I've no idea why anyone would argue against someone having different preferences.

Rooms are absolutely critical, as is careful positioning of the speakers - that can make or break any system. Depending on their depth, speakers designed for corners will suffer significant quarter-wave boundary cancellation, at an easily-audible frequency.

It pays dividends to obsess about where the speakers should go. By the time I'd finished, I was moving them in 1cm increments.

I don't care what people's preferences are, but I do find it mildly irksome when people claim that monitors are unsuitable for enjoying music, and are inferior for this purpose (in some indefinable way) to domestic designs with objectively more distortion, limited bandwidth, less headroom, etc. They are absolutely sublime, and I've never heard anything better (but that's just an opinion). Having said that, Quads are nice as well, IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

Musicality is not helpful to You.

I can define what it means to me - which is to do with the Timbre of Orchestral Instruments, the realism of how Orchestras/Soloists actually sound; whether it produces a sound that is engaging, authentic, believable and relays the intention of the musicians.

Generally, but not exclusively, any Musician, or anyone who has played an instrument, or gone to classical concerts knows instinctively what it is.

It is a subjective judgement that cannot be measured with an oscilloscope or plotted on a graph....but then Music is part of the Arts - and so plays to the Right Hand side of the brain.

Here is how it is described in the Stereophile Glossary:

musical, musicality A personal judgment as to the degree to which reproduced sound resembles live music. Real musical sound is both accurate and euphonic, consonant and dissonant.

That's just the usual Stereophile babble. Define euphonic. Most music is not recorded from a single "live" source, and some is just electronic squiggles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Blzebub said:

That's just the usual Stereophile babble. Define euphonic. Most music is not recorded from a single "live" source, and some is just electronic squiggles.

To you, anything that can't be measured, is babble. To me, what I consider most important, can't be measured. The enjoyment of music is totally subjective - and trying to define enjoyment with Graphs, is a pointless exercise (see the quote at the bottom of all my posts).....though over time, you can get to know what measurements might help with that aim.

The only way to measure enjoyment, is take an MRI of the pleasure centres of the brain, while listening to music.

I have had this argument countless times over the years - and there are people who simply don't get it and people who understand it completely. Neither side is right or wrong, they just go about it differently. The problem comes, when one side claims to have total ownership of the debate.

Edited by CnoEvil
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a funny one. Detail levels are generally an attribute to strive for. 

But I do think how detail is presented can vary. And with that, preferences for what sounds pleasing. 

My experience of the ATC SCM11 was that they were highly detailed, throughout the frequency spectrum, which was great on the whole. 

I wouldn't say they resolved more detail than my Spendors, for example, but they definitely presented it differently. 

There was always a feeling of surgical precision in the presence region, combined with a degree of forwardness. Impressive most of the time, sure, but not always (as) enjoyable (to my ears) as my Spendors which are just as detailed, but hang back a little, smooth edges slightly and, unquantifiably, sound more "natural". 

It's so subjective though. To many ears, the ATCs will sound just right. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

To you, anything that can't be measured, is babble. To me, what I consider most important, can't be measured. The enjoyment of music is totally subjective - and trying to define enjoyment with Graphs, is a pointless exercise (see the qote at the bottom of all my posts).....though over time, you can get to know what measurements might help with that aim.

The only way to measure enjoyment, is take an MRI of the pleasure centres of the brain, while listening to music.

I have had this argument a countless times over the years - and there are people who simply don't get it and people who understand it completely. Neither side is right or wrong, they just go about it differently. The problem comes, when one side claims to have total ownership of the debate.

You might as well say "I like this", rather than going through the "musicality" charade.

You are 100% right, musicality is subjective, and that's exactly why it's not a valid yardstick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Blzebub said:

You might as well say "I like this", rather than going through the "musicality" charade.

You are 100% right, musicality is subjective, and that's exactly why it's not a valid yardstick.

You asked, so I did my best to explain.

IME. The best way to choose a HiFi system, is to mix measurements with subjective preference....where Subjective preference is more important, but the measurements feed into and help with the decision.

For me, Musicality is what gives the enjoyment - and as such, is a totally valid yardstick For Me.

As it happens, most of the kit I have owned, measured well - but that is not the primary reason I chose it. I chose it, because I enjoyed it.

The only person you can talk definitely about, as to what Yardstick matters, is yourself. It is simply invalid, to project what you deem important, onto others, who think differently

Edited by CnoEvil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Blzebub said:

What design parameters are needed for a flattering speaker? Non-linearity?

You don’t accept:

that the world needs more than one speaker design?

That there exists more than one design for speakers at each size in a recording studio ie each manufacturer has their own take on this?

That ATC is not used in the majority of studios?

That not all amps are the same?

Not all turntables are the same?

Not all cars are the same?

Not all Thai green curries are the same? 

Not all humans are the same?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's obviously important that you like your system. Dressing that up as "musicality" is ridiculous.

  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DomT said:

You don’t accept:

that the world needs more than one speaker design?

That there exists more than one design for speakers at each size in a recording studio ie each manufacturer has their own take on this?

That ATC is not used in the majority of studios?

That not all amps are the same?

Not all turntables are the same?

Not all cars are the same?

Not all Thai green curries are the same? 

Not all humans are the same?

Why not answer my question, rather than listing some irrelevant and non-attributed assertions?

Edited by Blzebub
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Blzebub said:

Why not answer my question, rather than listing some irrelevant and non-attributed assertions?

Because your question is nonsense and I think that you know that. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Blzebub said:

You might as well say "I like this", rather than going through the "musicality" charade.

You are 100% right, musicality is subjective, and that's exactly why it's not a valid yardstick.

You really come across as a non-music lover. 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...