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DomT
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@radiant red what sort of room size do you feel the Proac DB1 and D2 excel in, from your experience?

I've always fancied a demo, although no proac dealers nearby. 

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On 09/07/2021 at 09:07, DomT said:

Any thoughts on which speaker gives the detail without the fatigue longer term? And agile bass is very important to me and so the Rogers L5/9 are completely out - but does that mean that the Harbeth M30.1 are also out?

M30.1s shouldn't sound too different from the M30.2s. They both have the same very good tweeter which sounds smooth and unfatiguing without loss of detail.

The original Rogers LS5/9s were not a very well-performing speaker.

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A quick note to self (and for others)

After listening now to a range of more dense productions my thinking is becoming clearer. On say Roxy Music’s Manifesto album the Proac DB3 are warm sounding because the recording is warm and full sounding yet guitars still have a bite to them when required. If the speaker was warmer then this album has the potential to be a bit of a mush. As always listening to a wide range of musical styles and recordings over a few day helps to evaluate a speaker. And of course people’s personal taste comes into play.

My summary so far is that these DB3s do a great job of being detailed, open, coherent, smooth and listenable for long listening periods. They are also great at low volume. I certainly wouldn’t want a more forward sounding speaker. 
 

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1 minute ago, tuga said:

M30.1s shouldn't sound too different from the M30.2s. They both have the same very good tweeter which sounds smooth and unfatiguing without loss of detail.

The original Rogers LS5/9s were not a very well-performing speaker.

I heard the brand new Rogers LS5/9. Given that they are made under licence is it safe to assume that the ‘new’ ones sound the same as the ‘old’ ones. 

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Super Wammer
1 minute ago, dave6v said:

@radiant red what sort of room size do you feel the Proac DB1 and D2 excel in, from your experience?

I've always fancied a demo, although no proac dealers nearby. 

Hi Dave

Depends on the layout of room too but no reason not to see them in a 4m x4m std room. 
so much depends on the kit you use too. I’m generally a Harbeth user but I would take the Proac DB1 over the Harbeth P3’s every time having heard both. The DB1’s are more an all rounder. 
I will always say that it’s difficult to fully recommend any speaker purely as it’s a personal choice, where are you based?

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4 hours ago, Nopiano said:

To be fair, Dom, it’s about as flat as anything out there, so that’s a rather unwarranted assertion which is also not your usual way.  Regardless of the measurements however, in practice the trend and off-axis response will very much affect what you hear at home.  And despite the brand’s studio heritage, the entry range are not studio monitors at all, but domestic speakers. 
Re the response though, JA actually writes: “Fig.4 shows the SCM 11's response in the farfield with its grille off, averaged across a 30° horizontal window centered on the tweeter axis. It is superbly flat and even, though a slight lack of energy in the crossover region is evident. 

I realised several pages ago that you don’t seem to like these enough to want them, so it’ll interesting what you choose in the end.

Another set of measurements for the SCM11. Doesn't look bad to my eyes apart from the off-axis BBC dip that is typical of most non-waveguided tweeter 2-ways:

0wlR1CE.png

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5 minutes ago, radiant red said:

Hi Dave

Depends on the layout of room too but no reason not to see them in a 4m x4m std room. 
so much depends on the kit you use too. I’m generally a Harbeth user but I would take the Proac DB1 over the Harbeth P3’s every time having heard both. The DB1’s are more an all rounder. 
I will always say that it’s difficult to fully recommend any speaker purely as it’s a personal choice, where are you based?

Thanks :^

Yeah, demo always required as preferences vary so much. Proac have always intrigued me, that's all. Idle curiosity only at present.

Based in Bristol. 

It's weird the DB1 gets so little press. 

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Super Wammer
4 minutes ago, dave6v said:

Thanks :^

Yeah, demo always required as preferences vary so much. Proac have always intrigued me, that's all. Idle curiosity only at present.

Based in Bristol. 

It's weird the DB1 gets so little press. 

They have been going for a long time. The D2’s are also very good but choose carefully between the dome ore ribbon version.

I have an good friend who has had access to Proac so had a chance to play. 
Look for a dealer that is happy to loan you a pair. Most decent dealers will ask for a deposit of half value, pay postage to and from your location then refund your holding deposit or put it towards your chosen speaker. Imo, if a dealer is prepared to do that, it means they are interested! 
Anyone from anywhere in the UK shouldn’t be limited by their location.. personally I think this is the way forward and Demoing in your own home with your own kit will always bring better sales and better results. 

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28 minutes ago, DomT said:

As always listening to a wide range of musical styles and recordings over a few day helps to evaluate a speaker.

Agree 100%

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17 minutes ago, tuga said:

Another set of measurements for the SCM11. Doesn't look bad to my eyes apart from the off-axis BBC dip that is typical of most non-waveguided tweeter 2-ways:

0wlR1CE.png

If measurements are factual, and beyond doubt, then surely two different people doing the same measurements should get the same results. Why does the Stereophile graph look very different to the one that you went off to find? 

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20 minutes ago, tuga said:

Another set of measurements for the SCM11. Doesn't look bad to my eyes apart from the off-axis BBC dip that is typical of most non-waveguided tweeter 2-ways:

0wlR1CE.png

Looks excellent, apart from the waterfall graph, but without anything to compare it too (and actually listening), it's difficult to know if it would be a subjective problem.

My only real worry would be the f6 at 50hz, some music may sound a bit thin. Even with the shallow slope of a sealed enclosure and room gain, there may be a dip lows.

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And a quick note about the bass performance of the DB3. In short it does not seem to have the same level of detail as the mid and upper frequencies. I don’t mean that it doesn’t go deep. I mean that I can differentiate much more between lead guitars than bass guitars. Bass is a bit ‘samey’ from artist to artist and this is clearly incorrect. It’s really my only grumble with this model and will probably now put this particular model out of contention but Proac as a company stays in.

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12 minutes ago, DomT said:

If measurements are factual, and beyond doubt, then surely two different people doing the same measurements should get the same results. Why does the Stereophile graph look very different to the one that you went off to find? 

Achieving an accurate frequency response measurement below about 300hz can be very difficult. Stereophile take a nearfield measurement of the woofer (around 5mm to 25mm away from the dustcap) and splice it with a farfield  measurement (usually around 1mtr). If you don't correct the nearfield response, before you splice (Stereophile don't), you end up with a hump in the low frequencies. It's also a bit of guesswork as to what SPL level you choose when you splice. So, anything below about 300hz, take with a pinch of salt.

Apart from the low frequencies, I'd say the measurements look pretty similar.

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8 minutes ago, Fatmarley said:

Achieving an accurate frequency response measurement below about 300hz can be very difficult. Stereophile take a nearfield measurement of the woofer (around 5mm to 25mm away from the dustcap) and splice it with a farfield  measurement (usually around 1mtr). If you don't correct the nearfield response, before you splice (Stereophile don't), you end up with a hump in the low frequencies. It's also a bit of guesswork as to what SPL level you choose when you splice. So, anything below about 300hz, take with a pinch of salt.

Apart from the low frequencies, I'd say the measurements look pretty similar.

Maybe similar apart from the big 5db dip at the crossover point. Tuga’s graph shows different measurements which is why I raised this. 

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