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Will You Still Have Access To Your Music Through Your Streaming Service In 10-20 Years? Unlikely


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1 hour ago, Solanum said:

Sometimes I listen to something and I wonder if I'm the only person to play that on a Linn system. You start to answer that for me in the negative ūüėĀ, but what about someone like Freschard, maybe I still have a unique edge with WIAIWYA releases?¬†

I was not familiar with Freschard, but your post made me curious so had a listen to a couple of tracks on Bandcamp and thought it was excellent.

I do have some German records such as the well known¬†elpees by Amon D√ľ√ľl I & II, Anyone's Daughter, Ash Ra Tempel, Can, DAF, Eloy, Embryo, Faust,¬†Floh¬†de Cologne, Grobschnitt, Guru Guru, Klaus Schulze,¬†Kraftwerk,¬†Ougenweide, Neu!, Nina Hagen, Spliff,¬†Tangerine Dream and¬†Wallenstien. I'd assume the complete catalogues are on the streaming services and are all from the past, but still¬†enjoyed.¬†

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15 hours ago, Andyt916 said:

That's true. However, even if we consider that the royalties paid are miniscule, a Stéphane Grappelli track (as a random example) takes up the same disk space, processor power, network and security infrastructure cost to maintain and stream as does a Dr. Dre track (as another random example). If over the course of a three-five year business cycle the Dr. Dre track is earning more than the infrastructure costs and the Stéphane Grappelli track is earning less than the infrastructure costs I think we can all agree which of the tracks will be archived to long-term "cold" storage.

Yes, but given the existence of the NSA facility in Bluffdale Utah that is literally copying everything ever done on the internet, the costs of storage are cheap, and getting cheaper. It is the common sales pitch for all these services to say they have a large amount of tracks, often comparing this number to that of their competitors. I'm sure they look at the factoid that Fleetwood Mac, Rumours jumped back into the top of the charts because it was the soundtrack of a viral video on some other streaming service. It would be bad PR if their subscribers went to find it, and couldn't. 

Edited by Jail4CEOs2
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On 20/07/2021 at 12:48, Jail4CEOs2 said:

Yes, but given the existence of the NSA facility in Bluffdale Utah that is literally copying everything ever done on the internet, the costs of storage are cheap, and getting cheaper. It is the common sales pitch for all these services to say they have a large amount of tracks, often comparing this number to that of their competitors. I'm sure they look at the factoid that Fleetwood Mac, Rumours jumped back into the top of the charts because it was the soundtrack of a viral video on some other streaming service. It would be bad PR if their subscribers went to find it, and couldn't. 

Yes, but I bet that NSA facility is also using cold storage. I agree file storage gets more cheap all the time, but files also get bigger it seems. And you have to look at the kind of storage we're talking about. The storage that is used in high access, high volumes traffic is different from the one the is used for archiving. The latter might take a week to download, because it needs to be prepared. The former is readily accessible, but on drives that are still very, very expensive. 

So I think storage cost can and will factor in decisions for a streaming service to offer content. 

That said, I do think streaming service of the future will no longer save the data itself. They will just act as a go between, offering the transfer and the control as a service, but leaving the actual storage to outside parties. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here’s another take. Last year I was in the process of discovering all of Neil Young’s catalog over Tidal, now I can only access a portion of his albums. I know Neil Young likes to control his music, which is fine, but in the end it made me buy a couple of records. So now if I really like, I buy  

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On 22/07/2021 at 14:30, dikki said:

That said, I do think streaming service of the future will no longer save the data itself. They will just act as a go between, offering the transfer and the control as a service, but leaving the actual storage to outside parties.

They already do. Spotify used to house all their own kit in co-lo datacentres (I went into one of their data halls on a couple of occasions - a most impressive array of "traditional" servers and storage). Then, from about 2016 onwards, they commenced a migration to Google Cloud Platform. That was around the same time as Netflix was migrating to AWS; it's 100% there now.

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On 20/07/2021 at 01:23, Nestor Turton said:

I do have some German records such as the well known¬†elpees by Amon D√ľ√ľl I & II, Anyone's Daughter, Ash Ra Tempel, Can, DAF, Eloy, Embryo, Faust,¬†Floh¬†de Cologne, Grobschnitt, Guru Guru, Klaus Schulze,¬†Kraftwerk,¬†Ougenweide, Neu!, Nina Hagen, Spliff,¬†Tangerine Dream and¬†Wallenstien. I'd assume the complete catalogues are on the streaming services and are all from the past, but still¬†enjoyed.¬†

Quite the impressive list of krautrock, I have a few obscure gems including GAA, Missus Beastly, and a few others in LP format, however originals of all of what you mentioned are prohibitively expensive typically (except for Tangerine Dream, you can find decent copies most anywhere). 

The real question is, do you have an original copy of Walter Wegmuller's album Tarot? They actually have a "remastered" version on Tidal streaming, and it is probably one of those candidates for being relegated to the dustbin in 10-20 years. I do not have any analog copies of this record but if I could source one I probably would; last I checked a good copy was something like $1K. The track "Der Herrscher" is the ticket.

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11 hours ago, Elad Repooc said:

Quite the impressive list of krautrock, I have a few obscure gems including GAA, Missus Beastly, and a few others in LP format, however originals of all of what you mentioned are prohibitively expensive typically (except for Tangerine Dream, you can find decent copies most anywhere). 

The real question is, do you have an original copy of Walter Wegmuller's album Tarot? They actually have a "remastered" version on Tidal streaming, and it is probably one of those candidates for being relegated to the dustbin in 10-20 years. I do not have any analog copies of this record but if I could source one I probably would; last I checked a good copy was something like $1K. The track "Der Herrscher" is the ticket.

Apart from high profile rarities or something you are super keen to own (and prepared to lose money on), I don't think it makes sense to pay large amounts of money for older records as the market is too demand driven. Quite a bit of sixties stuff seems surprisingly cheap these days, compared with when I was young (80's). On the other hand, a lot of 90's stuff is ridiculously priced (including quite a bit that I bought on release).

I put that down to the biggest sector of the used market being middle aged people with a bit of spare cash and nostalgia. As those people move to more restrictive pension incomes or move off this mortal coil, demand drops for the music of their youth. I am sure it will happen with the current 90's splurge as time moves on.

My particular personal experience of this was a record given free at a gig, which over the next few years ended up selling for around 100 pounds (and this was 20 years ago), currently the average price on Discogs is 94 pence as nobody cares any more. Not exactly an investment for anyone that paid significant cash for it. Luckily I didn't. That's a bit of an extreme example (short lived band), but a lesson for someone like me that just wants to hold onto original vinyl and isn't interested in an 'investment' as such. Max I will pay for anything used is around the cost of new vinyl (AU$40-60 here - which is ridiculous in itself).

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14 hours ago, Elad Repooc said:

The real question is, do you have an original copy of Walter Wegmuller's album Tarot?

No I do not have that album. Sounds interesting though. 
i have Cosmic Joke by the Cosmic Jokers, but only on CD (not a vinyl original). 
The CJs back Walter on his album. I read the original came with two packs of Tarot cards. 
i’m unfamiliar with Missus Beastly. 

@Solanum - I bought most of my records when they first came out. When I was at college in the early 1970s there was great interest in German music. John Peel played lots on the wireless especially Faust and Tangerine Dream. I don’t really know if my records are worth very much, but I still play and enjoy albums such as Tanz Der Lemmings. Occasionally, I’m stunned by prices asked in Amazon Marketplace, but always assumed they don’t sell. 

At school there was a music club and we played records at lunch time. There were some who brought along Tamla Motown records, those into James Taylor and Al Green, those into Reggae (a genre I love) and the section I fell in to playing Incredible String Band, Van Der Graaf, ELP and Velvet Underground. Thinking back, there were embarrassing heated arguments over which artists were worthy. A teacher dragged me into an after school debating society meeting, where i made the case to keep Françoise Hardy safely in the balloon at the expense of Diana Ross; Paul McCartney and Mozart also stayed aboard. 

Edited by Nestor Turton
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Many eons ago if I heard something I liked (radio, gig, word-of-mouth, etc.) I'd go and buy the vinyl.
Eventually I needed lots of space and shelves to store it all.

Move forward a few years and I bought a CD Player and began buying the CD instead buying vinyl.
Storage shelf space still needed, but at least it was less than that required for my vinyl collection.

Eventually transferred all my CD's to flac, got a Streamer, and started buying downloads instead of CD's.
No more CD storage required as I could store all of these downloads on a little box smaller than a pack of cards.

Never paid for any streaming service.
I still buy music... mostly as a download, occasionally as vinyl.

So for me not much has actually changed, apart from the device needed to play the music
The process is still the same.
 

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