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Interesting "Best" DACs no matter the cost thread


Psilonaught
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2 hours ago, Fourlegs said:

Rob has always said that he is working on his digital amplifiers that will be fed directly from the Mscaler which will send the volume information. That will eventually make Dave redundant.

On the other hand John Franks says RW has been working on the digital amps for many years and not to expect them any time soon.

Meanwhile Dave sales show no sign of slowing down.

That's interesting, digital amplifiers and dsp have to be the future of hifi. Soon I think with the power of future generations of DAVE's there's won't be any preference of sound because basically the emulation/modelling will be there to make it sound however you want. And there'll always be that DIRECT switch on there to make it sound as they believe it should sound and how the DAVE is tuned now perhaps.

For everyone else there'll be that preference selector so they can have their warm lush vocals, vinyl smooth, tube harmonics, or crystal clarity options or whatever :

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1 hour ago, eddie-baby said:

That's interesting, digital amplifiers and dsp have to be the future of hifi.

And active speakers. All-in-one.

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What's a digital amplifier? Analogue switching PWM or.....:geek:

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1 hour ago, tuga said:

And active speakers. All-in-one.

Personally I really don't see the need. With DSP as long as its a clean good amplifier and enough to drive the drivers why bother. The cost of amp technology is really becoming so cheap you just paying more than you really have to buying active. You can buy 'decent' cheap amplifiers these days for each drive unit without the need or expensive of having them integrated into the speakers. More choice with DSP we need, but I think it's inevitably coming and going to go that way.

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29 minutes ago, eddie-baby said:

Personally I really don't see the need. With DSP as long as its a clean good amplifier and enough to drive the drivers why bother. The cost of amp technology is really becoming so cheap you just paying more than you really have to buying active. You can buy 'decent' cheap amplifiers these days for each drive unit without the need or expensive of having them integrated into the speakers. More choice with DSP we need, but I think it's inevitably coming and going to go that way.

Mostly convenience but also ultimate performance are the two reason why I suspect that all-in-ones will become widespread in a decade or two

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hot off the press. A 2 grand DAC is no better than a £9 dongle DAC according to Amir. So be careful what you are buying!

It might actually sound like your ears are having orgasms but it don't matter it doesn't measure well at all, forget it! :D

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14 minutes ago, eddie-baby said:

Hot off the press. A 2 grand DAC is no better than a £9 dongle DAC according to Amir. So be careful what you are buying!

It might actually sound like your ears are having orgasms but it don't matter it doesn't measure well at all, forget it! :D

He lost me at 'i don't know if it's audible'......nuff said

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how is a review of the master 7 "hot off the press"? It is an obsolete product?

I'm more interested in these two reviews of Audio GD's current products.

Here

Here

I'm far more likely to base my purchase decisions on Hans Beekhuyzen and HFA, two very well respected reviews, compared to ASR. If I listened to ASR I would have a Topping DAC, which sounds garbage :D

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1 minute ago, Psilonaught said:

If I listened to ASR I would have a Topping DAC, which sounds garbage

But it doesn't matter how it sounds, just look at those graphs!

In fairness, if it measures well then clearly your hearing is wrong. 👍

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since I have never owned any audio GD products I can't really comment properly, but I will certainly accept that their older designs do appear deeply flawed, and their website is extremely odd.

The new models seem to receive huge applause from a sound POV however, so I, for one, am considering the R7HE Mk2. 

Edited by Psilonaught
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10 minutes ago, Psilonaught said:

how is a review of the master 7 "hot off the press"? It is an obsolete product?

I'm more interested in these two reviews of Audio GD's current products.

Here

Here

I'm far more likely to base my purchase decisions on Hans Beekhuyzen and HFA, two very well respected reviews, compared to ASR. If I listened to ASR I would have a Topping DAC, which sounds garbage :D

It's hot off the press as far as he's just done the review of this older DAC. I don't even know much about it to be honest, I didn't even know it was an old DAC.

He does say reviewers are saying good things about it, what I found amusing was him saying but it measures no better than a £9 dongle DAC :D

And as for the Topping, well if you want to waste your money on overpriced stuff ;)

We are at a funny time in audio, I have to say I do kind of like what the 'science' approach is kind of doing. At least its giving us some balance in the world of audio instead of taking the everything thats built like a tank, costs a small fortune is always 'better'. This guy is to the other extreme though it seems.

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I don’t think that Amir’s approach is fundamentally different from old Serge’s in that both trust measurements and take known research on audibility for granted.

He seats in the opposite corner to alt-subjectivist reviewers and his approach is just as reductive (and on top of that there’s the scorning attitude). 

Listening and measurements are complementary tools. If reviewers don’t listen or if they don’t measure they are only getting half the picture.

It’s unfortunate that most audio influencers tend to sit in either one of the extreme corners...

Edited by tuga
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3 hours ago, tuga said:

I don’t think that Amir’s approach is fundamentally different from old Serge’s in that both trust measurements and take known research on audibility for granted.

He seats in the opposite corner to alt-subjectivist reviewers and his approach is just as reductive (and on top of that there’s the scorning attitude). 

Listening and measurements are complementary tools. If reviewers don’t listen or if they don’t measure they are only getting half the picture.

It’s unfortunate that most audio influencers tend to sit in either one of the extreme corners...

To me its totally irrelevant in terms of music reproduction. You don't have to know or even begin to understand music theory or the science behind it to enjoy a piece of music and hi-fi is no different. Hi-Fi is in general used for recreating music for enjoyment, once your above a certain acceptable standards like distortion, clarity volume etc you are fine. I can guarantee that most musicians don't even understand what they are doing they just perform, they may get assessed in the process, or perhaps given pointers even, things like your levels are off or you cant even play, sing whatever but scientifically nobodies cares. Again its will only be the bad that will be evident to the listener, if its generally well done people just enjoy it, hi-fi is no different.  

Edited by eddie-baby
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15 minutes ago, eddie-baby said:

To me its totally irrelevant in terms of music reproduction. You don't have to know or even begin to understand music theory or the science behind it to enjoy a piece of music and hi-fi is no different. Hi-Fi is in general used for recreating music for enjoyment, once your above a certain acceptable standards like distortion, clarity volume etc you are fine. I can guarantee that most musicians don't even understand what they are doing they just perform, they may get assessed in the process, or perhaps given pointers even, things like your levels are off or you cant even play, sing whatever but scientifically nobodies cares. Again its will only be the bad that will be event to the listener, if its generally well done people just enjoy it, hi-fi is no different.  

Of course you don't.  However, as with many things some training and knowledge can enhance your experience be it music, wine tasting or fine art.

Take art as an example understanding the development of pigments may give a more nuanced understanding of what could be achieved during a particular epoch and hence better appreciate the artists skill.

I for one like to know how things work. With hi fi equipment the measurements help reassure me a product is well made and if it will match what I have and if it is likely to gave any specific issues.

For a pure consumer this may not matter but for a reviewer who's subjective judgement I have no feel for the measurement provide a reference point.

I generally look at kit that measures well and gets a range of positive subjective reviews. Best of both worlds?

Regards Andrew 

Edited by andrew s
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