Jump to content

Yesterday a mains cable sceptic had to revise his thoughts.


Fourlegs

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

Can you elaborate on this, have you tried it?

I saw a null test on a youtube video that was filled with so many holes in its methodology that it had no validity.

I don't use windows unfortunately. But many seem to vouch for it both at CA/As and at ASR.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, andrew s said:

What methodology, if any, is valid in your view given that sighted listening (which you practice) has been demonstrated to have failings/issues from a psychoacoustic perspective? Perhaps,  you reject these concerns as baseless?

Regards Andrew 

 I don’t think anyone is suggesting that ALL sighted listening is invalid which is what you imply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

The ASR vote is as good a reason as any not to investigate it any further!! 😂

That is a rather extremist view. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, tuga said:

That is a rather extremist view. :D

As is one that favours ASR no?? They do seem extremist on there. They might even be on some watch lists. 😂😂😂

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fourlegs said:

 I don’t think anyone is suggesting that ALL sighted listening is invalid which is what you imply.

If I grant that how and where do you draw the line? Regards Andrew 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, andrew s said:

If I grant that how and where do you draw the line? Regards Andrew 

Andrew how do you think that musicians and producers make recording decisions every day so that you can listen to music. They use their ears and make judgements whilst making sometimes tiny adjustments to eq or reverb or other effects. Humans can and do you ears, brains and judgement. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, DomT said:

Andrew how do you think that musicians and producers make recording decisions every day so that you can listen to music. They use their ears and make judgements whilst making sometimes tiny adjustments to eq or reverb or other effects. Humans can and do you ears, brains and judgement. 

Of course you are right and of course we can make sighted judgements on the vast majority of sound differences with our systems. The problems probably occur when there is debate as to whether there is a difference or not when the difference is slight (or even non existent) but the solution is not to have a complete melt down and pretend that means that no sighted judgement is ever valid.

I slightly suspect that Andrew is trying to make a point but he is failing to do that by taking his logic to a slightly ridiculous conclusion. (IMHO of course!!). Instead it just comes across as being argumentative for its own sake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, DomT said:

Andrew how do you think that musicians and producers make recording decisions every day so that you can listen to music. They use their ears and make judgements whilst making sometimes tiny adjustments to eq or reverb or other effects. Humans can and do you ears, brains and judgement. 

Absolutely,  but that is totally different from making judgements that are more than personal preference about the difference between the sound of one power supply and another when reproducing the same music. 

Regards Andrew 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, andrew s said:

Absolutely,  but that is totally different from making judgements that are more than personal preference about the difference between the sound of one power supply and another when reproducing the same music. 

Regards Andrew 

It’s exactly the same and let me explain why. 

Producers/engineers in a studio talking about a vocal part. The vocal is a bit recessed. Let’s bring it forward in the mix. They are comparing the difference between a more forward and more recessed vocal part. They listen and decide what they like best. 

A person at home listening to music. They change the amp or power supply or something else. They discover that the vocals sound different. With one change the vocals are more forward in the mix and with the other change they are more recessed.

The experience or making a change in a studio or with equipment at home and listening to the difference is the same. We use listening skills and judgement. Sometimes engineers do bad mixes and sometimes they might make a change that others in the session don’t notice. And it’s the same at home. Humans are fallible but I would put money on some of our Wammers to spot a difference in the same way that I would would put money on me or my wife to spot a difference. 
 

I get that there are technical considerations but in many cases they are just theoretical as otherwise no music would be produced and conductors who couldn’t hear if a violin was playing too loudly would be out of a job. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, DomT said:

They use their ears and make judgements whilst making sometimes tiny adjustments to eq or reverb or other effects.

Hi,

What you have stated there, is where you directly affect/change the music, or the bits on the CD/file.

What a mains cable is doing is completely different.

You would not state that the "special" pipe from the fuel tank to the fuel pump makes the car go faster, if there are other pipes and reservoirs following the fuel pump to the injection system.

As long as the "special" pipe does not restrict the required fuel flow, then it is not special, and has no effect.

Same for a mains cable.

Regards,

Shadders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

Of course you are right and of course we can make sighted judgements on the vast majority of sound differences with our systems. The problems probably occur when there is debate as to whether there is a difference or not when the difference is slight (or even non existent) but the solution is not to have a complete melt down and pretend that means that no sighted judgement is ever valid.

I slightly suspect that Andrew is trying to make a point but he is failing to do that by taking his logic to a slightly ridiculous conclusion. (IMHO of course!!). Instead it just comes across as being argumentative for its own sake.

It's very simple. You dismiss others approaches e.g. the you tube methodology you mentioned as totally invalid.  All I am asking is what your methodology is so I can judge its validity. As you appear to follow a sighted listening approach I mention it has been show to be invalid for psychoacoustic studies. 

I have never said all sighted listening is invalid, I said as I just repeated  above in psychoacoustic studies.  You extrapolated that to All not me.

Regards Andrew

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Shadders said:

Hi,

What you have stated there, is where you directly affect/change the music, or the bits on the CD/file.

What a mains cable is doing is completely different.

You would not state that the "special" pipe from the fuel tank to the fuel pump makes the car go faster, if there are other pipes and reservoirs following the fuel pump to the injection system.

As long as the "special" pipe does not restrict the required fuel flow, then it is not special, and has no effect.

Same for a mains cable.

Regards,

Shadders.

The conversation is about whether people can hear the difference. Keep up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, DomT said:

It’s exactly the same and let me explain why. 

Producers/engineers in a studio talking about a vocal part. The vocal is a bit recessed. Let’s bring it forward in the mix. They are comparing the difference between a more forward and more recessed vocal part. They listen and decide what they like best. 

A person at home listening to music. They change the amp or power supply or something else. They discover that the vocals sound different. With one change the vocals are more forward in the mix and with the other change they are more recessed.

The experience or making a change in a studio or with equipment at home and listening to the difference is the same. We use listening skills and judgement. Sometimes engineers do bad mixes and sometimes they might make a change that others in the session don’t notice. And it’s the same at home. Humans are fallible but I would put money on some of our Wammers to spot a difference in the same way that I would would put money on me or my wife to spot a difference. 
 

I get that there are technical considerations but in many cases they are just theoretical as otherwise no music would be produced and conductors who couldn’t hear if a violin was playing too loudly would be out of a job. 
 

We shall have to agree to disagree on this. I won't take it further or I will be accused of arguing for the sake of it.

Regards Andrew 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...