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Issues with Allo Digione Signature and MiniDSP DDRC 22D


bencat
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I know that this is very likely to be a very niche issue and there will not be that many others that have a similar problem but for all I know there may be others using the DDRC 22D with other items and have come across the same issue.

Now in my active three way system I have used an Allo Digione and a Pi 4 / Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 as players with out any issues and turned the system including the players off every night and back next day no problem . The Player and the DDRC 22D were both powered by the same dual supply Baldwin LPSU .

Now after dithering for a long while decided to get an Allo Digione Signature and this requires two power inputs for the one unit so I used the Baldwin LPSU for the Allo and an Allo Shanti for the DDRC 22D of the 3 amp feed.

I then started to get a strange thing happening which was I would turn on the system and it would power up . As always any Pi player has to boot up and connect to the internet and then LMS and after about a minute the player will appear on the Material Skin controller on my laptop . I then choose the Allo Signature player and start the music i want to hear . It starts on the screen and I can see the bar moving showing it is playing but no sound . I try rebooting the player and in the end the only thing that works is to open the Moode Audio page and take the player to None reboot and then choose Allo Digione Signature and the sound after rebooting Squeezeplay comes out . Not very good .

Tried using a different distro (Max2play) and get the same thing happening I know all those that say using a Pi is silly and lots of faff will have another reason to avoid but this is my chosen way . Asked for help from Max2play and got some advice and suggestions which one by one I tried but nothing seemed to work . The went through a checklist of things that might help . Came to sequenced switch on as one thing to try and switched on the main system including the the Allo Signature but not the DDRC 22D let the Allo settle and appear on my LMS page and then turned on the DDRC 22D and bingo music straight away . Done this sequence switch on for the last three days and no more issues .

I can only presume that when the DDRC 22D boots up at the same times as the Allo that the connection handshake they make when the Allo is not fully booted up is corrupted and compromised and so a full and proper connection is not made . The SPDIF light on the DDRC 22D is lit up and the Dirac Live light as well but a not full connection has been made . Turning the DDRC 22D on when the Allo is fully running and stable seems to make a good handshake connection and no issues.

Would be nice to have a better and easier solution but as it works now will just carry on like this .

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With the Digione Signature one has to power on the "clean supply" first, or, both "clean" and "dirty"  at the same time.

Perhaps the dirty is powering on before the clean ?

an inline switch might help

https://thepihut.com/products/usb-c-cable-with-switch

Andrew, I have just bought a second-hand Signature. Using the battery pack for the clean and a HDPlex 100 power supply for the 5 volt.

Sounds nice o.O:)

ronnie

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12 hours ago, Man in a van said:

With the Digione Signature one has to power on the "clean supply" first, or, both "clean" and "dirty"  at the same time.

Perhaps the dirty is powering on before the clean ?

an inline switch might help

https://thepihut.com/products/usb-c-cable-with-switch

Andrew, I have just bought a second-hand Signature. Using the battery pack for the clean and a HDPlex 100 power supply for the 5 volt.

Sounds nice o.O:)

ronnie

Hi Ronnie using the Baldwin LPSU supply to give both clean power at 3 amp to each side  and they both turn on at the same time . Not sure if the Allo Shanti does the same for switch on may try and switch over and see .

Agree that the Signature does sound very good and better than the Digione standard . Difficulty I had was that the plain Pi 4 using usb out in to a Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 and then in to the MiniDSP DDRC 22D sounds almost just as good and differences are very hard to spot . May well switch back and see if that cures the switch on problem as well .

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33 minutes ago, bencat said:

Hi Ronnie using the Baldwin LPSU supply to give both clean power at 3 amp to each side  and they both turn on at the same time . Not sure if the Allo Shanti does the same for switch on may try and switch over and see .

Agree that the Signature does sound very good and better than the Digione standard . Difficulty I had was that the plain Pi 4 using usb out in to a Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 and then in to the MiniDSP DDRC 22D sounds almost just as good and differences are very hard to spot . May well switch back and see if that cures the switch on problem as well .

Would you mind posting some pictures of the connection train on this. Just for my curiosity regards the mini dsp?

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Well even using the sequence that has worked the last three days did not work today instead the same thing happened and no sound. I did a reboot on the Moode Audio control page and it started to play but very distorted then after about two minutes the sound cleared and was normal . So what was that statement digital is either on and perfect or off nothing in between ? Not so and this does mean there can be noise and distortion on  a digital source and it will still play badly .

So just need to get music today and want it playing so have returned the Pi 4 with Musical Fidelity V-Link and this now only needs one LPSU the Baldwin which has dual 5V 3 Amp outputs and so everything turns on at the same time and I got sound , no change that I got very good music instantly and it is playing and making me happy now.

Will set the Allo Signature up in my main system at some point today or more likely tomorrow and see what happens with it in another set up but still connected to another DDRC 22D unit .

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I have an Allo Digione player with a battery on the clean side and a non descript PS for the dirty and always power them up together.  In over 2 years I've never had an issue with it working except when there's been a power outage whilst it's been powered up- you need to power it down correctly before switching off at the mains- like any computer system.  I'm not familiar with the DDRC 22D- digital inputs only?- perhaps somehow it defaults to the wrong input sample rate? although it should auto select- check the menus. 

I have a Chord Hugo 2 DAC which takes about a minute to power up, but still quicker than the Allo.

On another matter, it IS possible to have an iffy digital source: I had a 10m optical cable that corrupted the digital out as one DAC accepted the signal and I got sound while the output of another DAC was zilch.  Admitted the cable was "standard" quality.  Do check that the Toslink cable is firmly connected as it's easy to have a bad connection (sorry, obvious really).  

Could you try an RCA connection instead?  (I'm not a big fan of Toslink.)

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7 minutes ago, aggers said:

I have an Allo Digione player with a battery on the clean side and a non descript PS for the dirty and always power them up together.  In over 2 years I've never had an issue with it working except when there's been a power outage whilst it's been powered up- you need to power it down correctly before switching off at the mains- like any computer system.  I'm not familiar with the DDRC 22D- digital inputs only?- perhaps somehow it defaults to the wrong input sample rate? although it should auto select- check the menus. 

I have a Chord Hugo 2 DAC which takes about a minute to power up, but still quicker than the Allo.

On another matter, it IS possible to have an iffy digital source: I had a 10m optical cable that corrupted the digital out as one DAC accepted the signal and I got sound while the output of another DAC was zilch.  Admitted the cable was "standard" quality.  Do check that the Toslink cable is firmly connected as it's easy to have a bad connection (sorry, obvious really).  

Could you try an RCA connection instead?  (I'm not a big fan of Toslink.)

I am a little puzzled about this as the Allo Digione Signature does not have any TOSLINK output only SPDIF on either BNC or RCA I use the BNC output . I am also using Allo's recommended power supply the Shanti so it should work fine . I am not fully convinced it is the Allo at fault I think it may well be an issue with the MiniDSP but will have to see how things go in the main system . I am more than happy with the MF V-Link in this system as it sounds wonderful .

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10 hours ago, bencat said:

I am a little puzzled about this as the Allo Digione Signature does not have any TOSLINK output only SPDIF on either BNC or RCA I use the BNC output . I am also using Allo's recommended power supply the Shanti so it should work fine . I am not fully convinced it is the Allo at fault I think it may well be an issue with the MiniDSP but will have to see how things go in the main system . I am more than happy with the MF V-Link in this system as it sounds wonderful .

I have a usbridge usb output that I'm not using if you'd like to borrow to see if the mini dsp doesn't work.

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Okay no reason as why you want this but will try and add some and give details . First picture shows from left to right

Baldwin LPSU Dual 5V 3 Amp , Raspberry Pi 4 on top of Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 , MiniDSP DDRC 22D

The above are connected as per the next pictures .

IMAG0131.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Below shows mains cable in to Baldwin then standard 2.1mm barrel lead from Baldwin to the Raspberry Pi 4 with usb c adapter . Raspberry Pi with ethernet lead and USB cable out to the Musical Fidelity V-Link (uses usb connection for power) which then exits from XLR socket to XLR input on the DDRC 22 D which also has input connections for TOSLINK and SPDIF via RCA . DDRC 22 D treats the input with DIRAC Live and delivers the treated digital signal via the XLR output (again there are options for TOSLINK and SPDIF) to the MiniDSP digital crossover which splits the signal in to Bass , Mid . Treble to feed the amplifiers which are actively connected to each speaker .

Just in case it has any relevance the Power for the Baldwin LPSU and the DDRC 22D is from the same Monster HTS Power supply unit along with the rest of the system which also plugs in to this what i would call extension block in a case .

IMAG0132.jpg

Edited by bencat
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10 hours ago, bencat said:

Below shows mains cable in to Baldwin then standard 2.1mm barrel lead from Baldwin to the Raspberry Pi 4 with usb c adapter . Raspberry Pi with ethernet lead and USB cable out to the Musical Fidelity V-Link (uses usb connection for power) which then exits from XLR socket to XLR input on the DDRC 22 D which also has input connections for TOSLINK and SPDIF via RCA . DDRC 22 D treats the input with DIRAC Live and delivers the treated digital signal via the XLR output (again there are options for TOSLINK and SPDIF) to the MiniDSP digital crossover which splits the signal in to Bass , Mid . Treble to feed the amplifiers which are actively connected to each speaker .

Just in case it has any relevance the Power for the Baldwin LPSU and the DDRC 22D is from the same Monster HTS Power supply unit along with the rest of the system which also plugs in to this what i would call extension block in a case .

IMAG0132.jpg

Very cool 

Appreciated 👍 I could learn a thing or two from you. I honestly find all the Dirac models confusing but opt for pc with software now anyway but it's good to see the hardware 

Edited by Bokke
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MiniDSP is a fairly easy thing to understand you just need to have a clear idea of what you want to do . If you are going down the Active route then there are simple digital crossovers like the 2-4 HD and then options with more outputs for three way and above .

If you are looking to control an AV set up they have units that do that . Dirac is a separate add on that can be a stand alone unit like the DDRC 22D and DDRC 22A or the DDRC 22A/D which gives you digital only analogue only or digital and analogue combined . Or it can be a plug in to a unit with Digital Crossover like the DDRC 24 and then the big units for AV multichannel like the 88D .

Dirac is also included with other makes in AV units and Amplifiers from the likes of Arcam and NAD . It depends how much you want to spend and what you aim to do .

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