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Lyra Delos and Linn Uphorik jumper settings


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Hi all

Is anyone using the above combination and, if so, what have you got the jumpers set to? I'm aware (from reading a post on PFM) that Konfig give the values for a Delos/Urika II combination to be 2nf and 170ohm. I've tried this and it doesn't seems right. It could well be that the Konfig / Urika II calculation is based on the capacitance of a very short  internal phono cable -  as opposed to a 1.2m T-Kable. At the moment I have it set at 1nf and 53R (based  on listening and the nominal 6.x ohm internal capacitance (although, again the IC varies depending on what one reads and where one reads it). Also, could someone enlighten me on what "R" is on the Linn table. Is this 'Resistance'?

I'd be interested in knowing whether (a) anyone uses 2nf (I've no idea what the nf is a measure of) and (b) whether anyone is running an "R" of greater than 53. I have read that the Delos is designed to have a very agile cantilever and therefore loading becomes important - not just for sound but for longevity. Is this correct? I'm trying to get my  head around the physics involved but struggling a little with the first principles.

Having spent a day dialling this thing in I can confirm that it is extremely sensitive to both VTF  and VTA - and has a narrow sweet spot for both where it becomes full bodied  - otherwise it's a little 'thin'. I'm not hearing much difference between the "R' values of 42, 53  and 70 at 1nf but not moved outside of this range yet.

Edited by Dasher
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1 hour ago, Dasher said:

Hi all

Is anyone using the above combination and, if so, what have you got the jumpers set to? I'm aware (from reading a post on PFM) that Konfig give the values for a Delos/Urika II combination to be 2nf and 170ohm. I've tried this and it doesn't seems right. It could well be that the Konfig / Urika II calculation is based on the capacitance of a very short  internal phono cable -  as opposed to a 1.2m T-Kable. At the moment I have it set at 1nf and 53R (based  on listening and the nominal 6.x ohm internal capacitance (although, again the IC varies depending on what one reads and where one reads it). Also, could someone enlighten me on what "R" is on the Linn table. Is this 'Resistance'?

I'd be interested in knowing whether (a) anyone uses 2nf (I've no idea what the nf is a measure of) and (b) whether anyone is running an "R" of greater than 53. I have read that the Delos is designed to have a very agile cantilever and therefore loading becomes important - not just for sound but for longevity. Is this correct. I'm trying to get my  head around the physics involved but struggling a little with the first principles.

Having spent a day dealing this thing in I can confirm that it is extremely sensitive to both VTF  and VTA - and has a narrow sweet spot for both where it becomes full bodied  - otherwise a little 'thin'. I'm not hearing much difference between the "R' values of 42, 53  and 70 at 1nf but not moved outside of this range yet.

Will be interesting to see how your situation develops.   I bought and sold a Delos within months because it sounded "thin" using an EAR 834P.  I never got it to sound right.  and the EAR 834P is not adjustable.  I know that Lyras are not euphonic cartridges so I wasn't expecting a warm balance but a Linn Krystal is a Koetsu compared to the Delos.  

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1 minute ago, mskaye said:

Will be interesting to see how your situation develops.   I bought and sold a Delos within months because it sounded "thin" using an EAR 834P.  I never got it to sound right.  and the EAR 834P is not adjustable.  I know that Lyras are not euphonic cartridges so I wasn't expecting a warm balance but a Linn Krystal is a Koetsu compared to the Delos.  

On first listen I was quite happy to go with what is mainly said - detail but at the expense of depth and fullness. I don't have, don't expect, but also don't covet warmth but once that I'd started to get it tuned finer and finer I found something that I wasn't expecting  - everything just filled in. Not warm by any means but more depth and substance to the detail - and very rhythmic. It is a very narrow window - a tracking force window of less than 0.06g - and VTA - much more difficult to get precise with an Ekos - took ages (and I suspect that I will have to put up with a slight loss as I try different  thickness LPs). The null points were the easy bit - and even that takes work. It's certainly not 'plug and play'. I've  read that the Hana ML can be a similar challenge to set right - but not tried one (yet). This is an evaluation - it may stay, it may not and so yes, you are right - let's see how it develops.

This Delos is new to me,  but isn't 'new'. However, it looks good under the microscope, the whole assembly cleaned up really nice, the cantilever is true and suspension sound. I have no sibilance, no mistracking and, as it's the first Lyra that I've ever used,  it's definitely worth pursuing.

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10 minutes ago, Dasher said:

On first listen I was quite happy to go with what is mainly said - detail but at the expense of depth and fullness. I don't have, don't expect, but also don't covet warmth but once that I'd started to get it tuned finer and finer I found something that I wasn't expecting  - everything just filled in. Not warm by any means but more depth and substance to the detail - and very rhythmic. It is a very narrow window - a tracking force window of less than 0.06g - and VTA - much more difficult to get precise with an Ekos - took ages (and I suspect that I will have to put up with a slight loss as I try different  thickness LPs). The null points were the easy bit - and even that takes work. It's certainly not 'plug and play'. I've  read that the Hana ML can be a similar challenge to set right - but not tried one (yet). This is an evaluation - it may stay, it may not and so yes, you are right - let's see how it develops.

This Delos is new to me,  but isn't 'new'. However, it looks good under the microscope, the whole assembly cleaned up really nice, the cantilever is true and suspension sound. I have no sibilance, no mistracking and, as it's the first Lyra that I've ever used,  it's definitely worth pursuing.

I'm sure it is a good/great cartridge in certain systems that are a better match all around or have the ability to dial in precise adjustments. The one thing that was quite noticeable was how silently the Delos tracked. Yes super clean and no sibilance.  Not the slightest iota of groove chatter esp. compared to the Dynavector I had before the Krystal.  

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10 minutes ago, mskaye said:

I'm sure it is a good/great cartridge in certain systems that are a better match all around or have the ability to dial in precise adjustments. The one thing that was quite noticeable but  was how silently the Delos tracked. Yes super clean and no sibilance.  Not the slightest iota of groove chatter esp. compared to the Dynavector I had before the Krystal.  

I agree with everything that you say here. VTA could be its Achilles  Heel for me. There again though maybe not - most of what gets played on this LP12 is actually very similar in build -  unlike my other one that has to deal with everything from thin and flexi to thick and stiff!

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3 hours ago, Dasher said:

I'd be interested in knowing whether (a) anyone uses 2nf (I've no idea what the nf is a measure of) and (b) whether anyone is running an "R" of greater than 53.

a) it is nano Farads, a measure of capacitance.  This isn’t usually critical for MC cartridges, but I’m not familiar with Lyra Delos, beyond the name. (Nano is 1000 pico Farads)
b) R appears to be the impedance, and many MCs like low values.  A typical external MC phono stage might offer multiple setting from 20 ohms up to thousands of ohms.  

I hope you get it set up to your satisfaction.  In case it’s not obvious, you can’t harm the cartridge with different settings.  I’ve never come across the idea the longer term reliability depends on it, but if the manufacturers say so, then obviously that needs heeding.   

Edited by Nopiano
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This suggests roughly 97 to 800 ohms is required…

573B0A1A-8851-4CB8-9C22-49D595344A90.thumb.jpeg.d3f99d38788dfe3cdd5f1f031433d234.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Nopiano said:

This suggests roughly 97 to 800 ohms is required…

573B0A1A-8851-4CB8-9C22-49D595344A90.thumb.jpeg.d3f99d38788dfe3cdd5f1f031433d234.jpeg

Thanks! I had seen this but was struggling  with it being in Ohms - I wasn't aware that Impedance and resistance were both measured in Ohms. (I was really sure exactly what  impedance was - but have read up on not now)! I still don't know why Linn use "R" and not "Z". I'm still not really certain where 'load' comes from (is this just another term to describe 'impedance' ). Looks like once close, one can just trust one's ears!

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1 hour ago, Dasher said:

Thanks! I had seen this but was struggling  with it being in Ohms - I wasn't aware that Impedance and resistance were both measured in Ohms. (I was really sure exactly what  impedance was - but have read up on not now)! I still don't know why Linn use "R" and not "Z". I'm still not really certain where 'load' comes from (is this just another term to describe 'impedance' ). Looks like once close, one can just trust one's ears!

I must admit I only think of these things in the context of Hifi, at least since I left school.  Impedance is the usual term with cartridges and amplifiers, as we are dealing with AC, or music as I think of it!   You occasionally see someone putting a meter across loudspeaker terminals thinking they’re measuring its impedance, whereas they’re only discovering its resistance.  

Re the Delos, I now see it’s quite a high output MC, is that what you’ve found?  

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It is 'high output' relative to a Kandid or a Krystal but it is still only 0.6mV so definitely at the higher end of normal low output  MCs. It certainly not 'high output' as a term when normally referring to MCs (as in 'use them on the MM input'. I didn't find it an issue with the Uphorik - I only have two gain settings: +64dB and +54dB. I normally run on +64dB (with a 0.2mV output cartridge) and did expect to run at  +54dB - but I have found that I prefer the +64dB setting (to be fair, I've always  felt that my 0.2mV  cartridge could have done with a little more - as I always had to bring the ADSM gain up a little more than when listening to digitally sourced content). So no, I don't find the output to be an issue.

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16 minutes ago, Nopiano said:

Re the Delos, I now see it’s quite a high output MC, is that what you’ve found?

I should have added - I don't have the equation to convert, but I did notice that it is 0.6mV at 5cm/s - whereas although the Kandid is shown as 0.4mV, this is described as at 3.5cm/s. I've no idea whether output  rises with cm/s or falls (I've actually no idea what cm/s relates to but I guess it's a field strength measurement. There's a reason why I'm a biologist and not a physicist!

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6 minutes ago, Dasher said:

I should have added - I don't have the equation to convert, but I did notice that it is 0.6mV at 5cm/s - whereas although the Kandid is shown as 0.4mV, this is described as at 3.5cm/s. I've no idea whether output  rises with cm/s or falls (I've actually no idea what cm/s relates to but I guess it's a field strength measurement. There's a reason why I'm a biologist and not a physicist!

Crumbs, you’re taxing my rusty memory on cartridges, which many moons ago was an endless fascination. My recollection is the cm/s is groove velocity.  A bit like mph is for a car!  So 5 is more movement than 3.5 and presumably proportionally greater output, since that how a groove conveys louder or quieter.  

A bit of basic maths suggests they’re probably similar outputs.  If they sound similar then we are on the right lines!

Edited by Nopiano
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nopiano said:

A bit of basic maths suggests they’re probably similar outputs.  If they sound similar then we are on the right lines!

I came to the same conclusion - assuming that they are both going in the same direction! As they are from the same 'stable' (albeit very different) I suspect that this is correct. The recommended setting for the Kandid on Uphorik is also 64dB. Listening on 54dB I suspect that the output from the cartridge has to be much more than it is from the Delos.

Returning to it this morning and just switching on and playing I'm finding it very nice to listen to - so it's staying 'as is' for now!

Edited by Dasher
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While not exactly linear, if the Linn specs really are at 3.5cm/s then it's output at 5cm/s would be roughly 0.4*5.0/3.5 = 5.7 (or, as near as makes no difference, the same as the Delos).

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