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Yesterday, I ripped the twenty or so CDs of the newly arrived Van Der Graaf Generator Charisma Years box set that I’ve had on pre-order all summer. Afterwards, I realized that I could have saved myself trouble and expense because it’s already available to stream on Qobuz. I hadn’t anticipated that.

It got me thinking if it’s worth persevering with local music file storage when most new titles are available to stream. My sons gave up downloading to their phones and went over to streaming exclusively many years ago. Maybe, it’s getting close to the time when I should follow their example.                                                                              

I totally get that vinyl offers something different, but why bother with curating a library of digital music files when Qobuz and Tidal are already doing it for you?

Edited by Newton John
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If you've bought the discs and ripped them, then you own the right to use them in perpetuity.  Just because an album or track is available to stream today, doesn't mean it will be available tomorrow - rights negotiations being what they are.  Also, and annoyingly, sometimes a track or tracks are not available to stream on an album,  Again it's down to rights - perhaps the track was written by a different group member who didn't give their permission for the track to have streaming rights.  It's also a way of persuading you to buy the album, then you'll have the full number of tracks.

Bottom line - if you like something enough, then buy it.  

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My hierarchy is;

LP, Qobuz, Tidal, CD

If I like it, I buy it on LP. If not available on LP then stream on Qobuz. Not on Qobuz, Tidal. Not on Tidal, buy and rip on CD.

I tend to purchase music because I like owning it, and I want to support the artists. I'll buy a CD to support the artist, even if streaming on Qobuz or Tidal is available. I also don't want to be left without the music if Qobuz/Tidal no longer offer an album.

I also know people who only stream Tidal/Qobuz, and that suits them perfectly. Some of us are more into collecting than most.

Edited by akamatsu
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I’m with Akamatsu.  Maybe it reflects my sad old collector tendencies (and the fact that I’ve no missus to nag my clutter) that I’m automatically inclined to want a physical format - usually CD because of its relative cost - of an album I like.  Tidal is invaluable as an audition source, but I could never be satisfied with just a stream.

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7 minutes ago, Fitter Stoke said:

Tidal is invaluable as an audition source, but I could never be satisfied with just a stream.

It always feels as though something is missing. I guess owning physical media since in the 6th grade formed a habit.

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Hi John,

If I were to start over again, if I could rewind 5 years, I wouldn't have spent all those hours ripping music CD's. 

I'm perfectly happy with streaming from Qobuz. There's not much, except a few dodgy bootlegs that I have, that I can't find on Qobuz.

The problem being, folk of our generation just 'need' to own stuff. Going forward that's not going to be the case. 

Have faith in your boys and girl and follow their lead would be my recommendation.

Mike.

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5 hours ago, Newton John said:

I ripped the twenty or so CDs of the newly arrived Van Der Graaf Generator Charisma Years

This is a fantastic set with a superb book and 3 BluRays. I have all the Van Der Graaf Generator, Peter Hammill, Chris Judge Smith and Hugh Banton albums I know of on my music server, but am still very happy to have this new set. I, too, wish it had been a vinyl release. The new mixes are wonderful. Does Qobuz have the originals and remixes? 

Did every CD rip accurately? I found some inconsistencies on the Rimini live CD last track. It plays without problems in my CD player, but XLD reported errors, 

Did you rip the BluRays?

i also bought the Caravan box set, Who Do You Think We Are, which was also very good, but XLD reported similar problems on CDs that lasted longer than 70 minutes. They all play fine. 

it is probably true I am crazy to continue buying these box sets, but we’re never going to survive unless we are a little crazy. 

Edited by Nestor Turton
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Jeremy Clarkson wrote in the Sunday Times a few weeks back that all the best music was written and recorded from the early 70’s to the start of punk and everything else is rubbish. While I don’t entirely agree with him, nearly all my favourite albums are from that period. I have on my NAS every album from that period that I bought and now have those I wanted but couldn’t afford at the time. This is my ‘collection’ and although it all on FLAC files, I treasure the disk that holds them. While I like listening to new music, if could only listen to music from one period it would be the 70’s. 
 

Since subscribing to Tidal, then Qobuz, for the last 4 years I have never bought a single album. Mainly because I don’t need to, but for me, more importantly, there has not been anything that I feel I need to own. If I listed my top 100 albums, I don’t envisage there being anything included from this century. I am not even sure how you buy an album these days as I believe they have stopped producing CD’s. I am about to purchase a new Laptop and it won’t have a CD player so I will be unable to rip anything in the future. I realise turntable owners purchase vinyl albums for a different reason, but for me, my music buying days are over. RIP hard media.

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14 minutes ago, Billz said:

I am about to purchase a new Laptop and it won’t have a CD player so I will be unable to rip anything in the future.

Just for info Bill, £15 from Amazon will buy you a Chinese made CD reader that will allow you to rip any new CD's you might get. Connected by USB.

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I use Qobuz a  lot - but like Akamatsu and others -  I buy new  (and old) as vinyl. I do still buy used CDs and rip  them (eventually) to the NAS. They tend to be spun in the Unidisk for a  good few moths first though! Weirdly, I buy most of my pre-owned CDs from The Vinyl Exchange in Manchester!  

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12 hours ago, Nestor Turton said:

Did every CD rip accurately? I found some inconsistencies on the Rimini live CD last track. It plays without problems in my CD player, but XLD reported errors,

Track 06
    Filename : /Volumes/Music/VDGG (Charisma Years)/Rimini 9th August 1975/06 Van Der Graaf Generator - Man Erg [Remastered 2021].flac
    Pre-gap length : 00:01:25

    CRC32 hash (test run)             : 30D435E6
    CRC32 hash                              3E0A4112
        ->Rip may not be accurate.
    CRC32 hash (skip zero)           : 2185E913
    AccurateRip v1 signature         : F693EC37
    AccurateRip v2 signature         : 65A051C2
        ->Track not present in AccurateRip database.
    Statistics
        Read error                           : 0
        Jitter error (maybe fixed)   : 10
        Retry sector count              : 395
        Damaged sector count       : 0

Some inconsistencies found

==============================================

If I'd have been able to download it or had played it on a streaming service then I would not be aware if these errors. Indeed the errors may not be there in the non-CD version. As I can't hear them when I play them it is of no real consequence except knowing they exist on my rip is .... 

FWIW Apple Music with error checking rips the disc as if were perfect


 

Edited by Nestor Turton
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I find a subtle but tangible improvement in sound quality when I play ripped cd's from my uniti core over the streamed music from Qobuz andTidal (when I had it). The improvement is enough for me to purchase cd's that I really enjoy after hearing them first from Qobuz.

Edited by Wendy
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18 hours ago, Billz said:

Jeremy Clarkson wrote in the Sunday Times a few weeks back that all the best music was written and recorded from the early 70’s to the start of punk and everything else is rubbish. While I don’t entirely agree with him, nearly all my favourite albums are from that period. I have on my NAS every album from that period that I bought and now have those I wanted but couldn’t afford at the time. This is my ‘collection’ and although it all on FLAC files, I treasure the disk that holds them. While I like listening to new music, if could only listen to music from one period it would be the 70’s. 
 

Since subscribing to Tidal, then Qobuz, for the last 4 years I have never bought a single album. Mainly because I don’t need to, but for me, more importantly, there has not been anything that I feel I need to own. If I listed my top 100 albums, I don’t envisage there being anything included from this century. I am not even sure how you buy an album these days as I believe they have stopped producing CD’s. I am about to purchase a new Laptop and it won’t have a CD player so I will be unable to rip anything in the future. I realise turntable owners purchase vinyl albums for a different reason, but for me, my music buying days are over. RIP hard media.

While they all had their start last century, try this century's Wilco, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, Leonard Cohen's last two records, Raising Sand by Bob and Alison, James Taylor, October Road, Jackson Browne, The Naked Ride Home, and Steely Dan, Two Against Nature just squeaks in to this century too, as it was released in Feb 2000. That's a fine load of this century fare.

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On 10/09/2021 at 21:26, Billz said:

Jeremy Clarkson wrote in the Sunday Times a few weeks back that all the best music was written and recorded from the early 70’s to the start of punk and everything else is rubbish.

The music of our youth has a very powerful influence over our tastes, associated as it often is with formative experiences. We also tend to ignore the majority of music of the same period that did not leave such an indelible mark on us, remembering only the best.

However, I think the music of the later decades of the previous century probably had a greater importance to a higher proportion of the population at the time because music was more important culturally, and did not have to compete with the online world. This can give the impression that the music of that period was in some way better, perhaps, but I suspect that music fans of later decades would not agree. 

Edited by petecallaghan
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Thanks for all the answers. Food for thought.

On 10/09/2021 at 21:25, Nestor Turton said:

This is a fantastic set with a superb book and 3 BluRays. I have all the Van Der Graaf Generator, Peter Hammill, Chris Judge Smith and Hugh Banton albums I know of on my music server, but am still very happy to have this new set. I, too, wish it had been a vinyl release. The new mixes are wonderful. Does Qobuz have the originals and remixes? 

Did every CD rip accurately? I found some inconsistencies on the Rimini live CD last track. It plays without problems in my CD player, but XLD reported errors, 

Did you rip the BluRays?

i also bought the Caravan box set, Who Do You Think We Are, which was also very good, but XLD reported similar problems on CDs that lasted longer than 70 minutes. They all play fine. 

it is probably true I am crazy to continue buying these box sets, but we’re never going to survive unless we are a little crazy. 

All CDs ripped securely except one track, Refugees- Radio 1 John Peel 1971 last track on the Pawn Hearts Sessions. dBpoweramp struggled a bit with a few tracks at the end of the CDs, but usually got there eventually.

Qobuz has everything from the box set except the high res versions on the Blu-rays. i.e. all 17 CDs including both original and new mixes.

So far I've only listened to the new mixes of the albums. At present, I'm trying to familiarise myself with the music of all the bands that I'll be seeing at a festival next weekend. After that, I intend to delve into the box set and book.

Van Der Graaf Generator were only the second gig I ever attended on 3rd March 1969 at the Bay Hotel in Sunderland when I was fifteen (the first was Pink Floyd a couple of weeks earlier - those were the days. I missed out on so many great bands because they were usually on a Monday, a school night). I can be precise about the details because the promoter appended his records for the period to his autobiography. John Peel was there and the support was Black Sabbath.

Although I remember enjoying their performance that evening, I've never really got into any of their albums until recently. I thought the box set was a good opportunity to make up for lost time.

Edited by Newton John
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