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Best move from Majik / Lingo4?


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I have a standard Majik w/Lingo4. It’s the first turntable I’ve had in decades and am really enjoying the vinyl revival, however my lovely dealer popped a Kilmax in for a home listen and I’m now thinking about a few upgrades.

With the new Radikal that seems an obvious first step (initially just motor, but potentially Urika1 later) I’ve been advised to keep the Majik sub-chassis and not worry about Kore/Keel, but in terms of tonearm it becomes more challenging. The Ekos SE and Kandid sound great to my ears BUT aren’t everyone’s cup of tea (esp the Ekos)

The audio origami PU7ti is £1k less than the Ekos and gets outstanding reviews. Would this be worth a demo and which cartridges would pair well?

thanks

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Super Wammer
12 hours ago, WhiskyGuy said:

I have a standard Majik w/Lingo4. It’s the first turntable I’ve had in decades and am really enjoying the vinyl revival, however my lovely dealer popped a Kilmax in for a home listen and I’m now thinking about a few upgrades.

With the new Radikal that seems an obvious first step (initially just motor, but potentially Urika1 later) I’ve been advised to keep the Majik sub-chassis and not worry about Kore/Keel, but in terms of tonearm it becomes more challenging. The Ekos SE and Kandid sound great to my ears BUT aren’t everyone’s cup of tea (esp the Ekos)

The audio origami PU7ti is £1k less than the Ekos and gets outstanding reviews. Would this be worth a demo and which cartridges would pair well?

thanks

Assuming your Majik LP12 is new enough to have come with the Karousel bearing (if not do that first) then its the Radikal.  I don't agree with the advice you were given about forgetting improving the sub-chassis and move directly to looking at different arms.  The level of sub-chassis will have a fundamental effect on the performance of any arm.  Higher quality arms will not be at their best on the Majik sub.  

Re the actual arm - It's your ears that matter not anybody else's. By all means check out the audio origami PU7ti if you want to as a comparison to the Ekos Se which you say you already like.  Once you have done that you can decide which you prefer taking everything into account.  But as I said earlier, I personally would not put either onto a Majik sub-chassis.

With respect to carts that depends a lot on your budget.  But the cart comes after both the sub-chassis and then the arm in the Linn hierarchy.  I really wouldn't be putting say a cart in the £1000 range in either of the arms you mention that is itself sitting on top of a Majik sub-chassis.  You would than have two components performing sub-optimally.  

Edited by Wenge1
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Where are you located?  Can your dealer demo any of these options or his he just shooting from the hip?

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On 17/10/2021 at 10:06, pdcman said:

Assuming you already have the Karousel, the New Radikal is your next step. Beyond that, it depends what your existing arm is?

Exactly! First Karousel, then new/used Radikal (quite a few Akurate Radikals will likely appear on the market soon) and at least a Kore subchassis. Forget about arm and cartridge for now.

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If the deck doesn't have a karousel, then that's first.  I'd go a bit further and say that if you are going to take apart the deck to put in a karousel, you might as well put a kore in at the same time - that combination is a comparatively low-cost and high yield upgrade that will fundamentally improve your deck.

If you already have a karousel, then I'd go with the radikal.

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If you have the budget for a New Radikal then there may be ways of spending  it that  give a better overall balance. Like others I'm assuming that you have a Karousel, but of not then it  is a good place to start. Again though, if it is a not-so-old Majik LP12 then your Cirkus may have very low hours on it and it  may just be that spending a net £600 to replace something that could be only just bedded in doesn't quite make sense to you (The Karousel is good  though,  and to my ears it is certainly worth the relatively low cost upgrade). 

I haven't heard a new Radikal yet and so it is difficult to say whether it is worth a more than £2K premium over a decent, recent used one (mine was ex-demo and I paid around £2k for it). A recent used one could free up £2k though - which would buy a used keel  and give you change. Remember that until  4 weeks  ago an Akurate cased  Radikal, Keel, Karousel was only bettered by a  Klimax cased Radikal.

The only problem with a used Keel is that the arm collar limits arm choice. A PU7 will go on a Keel but again, without a budget it  is hard  to  say whether this  is an option for you.

There have  been  several arms fitted to Majik LP12s over the years and personally I wouldn't spend much on any cartridge to go on any of them - a higher end AT VM  95 will sound pretty good on any of them.  I wouldn't go near an Ekos SE without having the Keel and a Radikal,  and I wouldn't go near a Kandid without having an SE.

If the Cirkus is very new then you could conceivably kept and  have a used Keel, recent used  Radikal, new (non Ti)Pu  7 and a very good MC for around £7K. This is not Klimax level  but it is over the hump where diminishing returns  come into play. For  £8k you could add the  Karousel and take out the Cirkus.You  could save £1-1.5k by sourcing a used Ittok/Ekos/Ekos2 but then you are into a risk zone  that you may not  be  comfortable with. You should  also get around four figures back  for your Lingo and  around £250 for your Majik sub chassis.

At the lower end of outlay you could have a Karousel, Kore, Used  Radikal 1  and a good,  checked over used Ittok for around £4.5k.  The reselling of the Circus,Majik Sub and (I guess, Adikt) should buy you a decent cartridge. This also, by the way, whilst not "Klimax" will also build into a fantastic  sounding LP12! (even without the L4 to Radikal swap). 

Lowest cost to give significant lift could be Karousel, Kore, good serviced Ittok and something a step  up  from  an Adikt  - under £2.5k  once the Kore,Adikt  and Cirkus have been moved one. Actually, this would be my starting point  if I had £2.5k available.

It comes  down to how much budget you have available.

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1) Karousel first.

2) If you can afford it: the new Radikal or second-hand Radikal, then just get the Kore at the same time.

3) If you already have an Akito3 arm it should be good enough, otherwise it is the next step.

4) Then an entry-level MC cart.

5) A better phono-stage like Urika,Uphorik or similar 

But dont take my word for it, just listen to each upgrade before you buy and judge yourself. 

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18 hours ago, Dasher said:

There have  been  several arms fitted to Majik LP12s over the years and personally I wouldn't spend much on any cartridge to go on any of them - a higher end AT VM  95 will sound pretty good on any of them.  I wouldn't go near an Ekos SE without having the Keel and a Radikal,  and I wouldn't go near a Kandid without having an SE

I had a think about what I posted here and rather than just edit, where it would likely be missed, I thought that I should just correct it a little. If by any chance the 'original arm' that you have is  a Roksan Nima then I would keep hold as this is the one exception to the other Linn entry offerings that I would add a decent MC to. 

Also, if the itch hasn't gone away  and you are considering a new arm,  the Roksan  Sara, if one could find it in Linn fit, is worth a listen. I heard one of these before they became the Roksan Sara and was just about to purchase when they disappeared, only to reappear again later (by which time my Ekos 2 was in place). 

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Thanks for so many detailed and well informed responses! I should have clarified that my majik LP12 has the Karousel and the Jelco arm. 

I wasn’t really considering budget. I could in theory upgrade in one go, but that takes some of the fun away from tinkering with the different options and getting a sense of the uplift from each. Also I’ve found already that cost does not always equate to best/preferred sound quality or signature. 
 

The recommendation to stay with the Majik chassis came from a couple of well regarded U.K. dealers, but I think that may have been when considering less of an upgrade jump. My current thoughts are:

1. Radikal and Keel. I’m very open to buying used for PSUs and used this approach well when I had an almost fully Naim system. Will wait and see if Radikal 2 is such a step up first though…

2. Arm and cartridge. Makes sense to do this in combination. On purely atheistic terms the PU7ti in black wins hands down, the only problem could be demoing this alongside say an Ekos SE. Both are clearly awesome arms, but I’d want to let my ears decide.

3. Phono. Not even sure this will be needed. I run a McIntosh C1100 pre and it’s integrated tube phono stage is excellent. Easily better/preferred to any other separate phono stage I demo’d up to £3k. However that said I’ve love to compare with a Ulrika1 (which has the benefit of balanced  outputs to the C1100) This is what I’m demoing now on the dealers Klimax spec LP12 and the noise floor is ridiculously low - the C1100 helps as it’s incredible in that regard - at times it sounds almost like a digital source it’s so quiet!

Anyway lots of food for thought while I wait for the dealer to get some Radikal 2s to demo.

The fluted plinths are also rather tempting!! 

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Super Wammer
1 hour ago, WhiskyGuy said:

Thanks for so many detailed and well informed responses! I should have clarified that my majik LP12 has the Karousel and the Jelco arm. 

I wasn’t really considering budget. I could in theory upgrade in one go, but that takes some of the fun away from tinkering with the different options and getting a sense of the uplift from each. Also I’ve found already that cost does not always equate to best/preferred sound quality or signature. 
 

The recommendation to stay with the Majik chassis came from a couple of well regarded U.K. dealers, but I think that may have been when considering less of an upgrade jump. My current thoughts are:

1. Radikal and Keel. I’m very open to buying used for PSUs and used this approach well when I had an almost fully Naim system. Will wait and see if Radikal 2 is such a step up first though…

2. Arm and cartridge. Makes sense to do this in combination. On purely atheistic terms the PU7ti in black wins hands down, the only problem could be demoing this alongside say an Ekos SE. Both are clearly awesome arms, but I’d want to let my ears decide.

3. Phono. Not even sure this will be needed. I run a McIntosh C1100 pre and it’s integrated tube phono stage is excellent. Easily better/preferred to any other separate phono stage I demo’d up to £3k. However that said I’ve love to compare with a Ulrika1 (which has the benefit of balanced  outputs to the C1100) This is what I’m demoing now on the dealers Klimax spec LP12 and the noise floor is ridiculously low - the C1100 helps as it’s incredible in that regard - at times it sounds almost like a digital source it’s so quiet!

Anyway lots of food for thought while I wait for the dealer to get some Radikal 2s to demo.

The fluted plinths are also rather tempting!! 

With respect to 3, the Urika requires you to already have a Radikal as the latter is used to power the former.  Also, if your happy with your McIntosh phono stage then diverting all your funds to the rest of the deck makes a lot more sense to me and conforms to the very well established hierarchy of the LP12 .  

With respect to 2, obviously sound is the most important factor, but for me the aesthetics are also important.   For example, if something sounded a bit better but it was to my eye ugly to look at, then I would not go for it because the look would end up annoying me.  It's all matter of degrees of course and in the end your view on aesthetics is only one that matters.

With 1, the Radikal is definitely the upgrade that will have the biggest impact followed by the sub chassis.  Buying either second hand will not be an issue at all provided your buying from a reputable source.

Finally, I have no idea why I have gone 3, 2, 1 and no, I'm not related to Ted Rodgers ............ 😂

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3 hours ago, Wenge1 said:

Finally, I have no idea why I have gone 3, 2, 1 and no, I'm not related to Ted Rodgers ............ 😂

He's got his own white gloves too. 😉

E5C3A907-09D1-465B-B365-9962EBEF0454.jpeg

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Wow......  If the rest of your system is on par with the Mac pre, then I'd go for broke on the turntable.  You might even consider trading it in on a Klimax LP12.  😃

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