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Advice on how to extend a 2014 LP12 Akurate + Radikal - Thanks


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17 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

And, of course, we are all assuming that you have chosen a good dealer capable of demonstrating all your options to you…

The importance of which can be, sometimes, overlooked.

’troll

Yes, I deal with a dedicated Linn dealer in Amsterdam called Concerto Audio. They seem to have a decent chunk of the Dutch Linn market. Very good guys! 

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2 hours ago, Wenge1 said:

The Kore comes in at £800 and so would release up £1,860 which with your £15,000 budget would leave £4000 for speakers.  I would suggest trying to put into perspective your 'billet of aluminum' thoughts.  The Keel definitely brings about an improvement in performance over the Kore and I would still do it.

Taking you at your word of 'My first priority is get the system up and running', £2000 pound speakers will absolutely achieve that. If however, you definitely wanted the option of putting more of your budget towards speakers then my suggestion would be to forgo the Urika before you forgo the Keel.  The phono stage is behind the sub-chassis, arm and cart in the Linn hierarchy.  The Urika was suggested because you already have a more than decent cart and a more than serviceable arm and of course its compatibility and synergy with the Radikal.

Keeping the Keel and forgoing the Urika would release up  £2750.  If my sums are correct then Karousel, Keel + Selekt DSM (Katalyst + Power Amp) would leave you with £4840 for speakers.   This would more than just get your system up and running.  It should sound wonderful whether playing the LP12 or digitally through the Selekt DSM.  Of course the LP12 would be at a higher level than the digital side but you can't have everything.   In the end it's your money and your ears, especially with the speakers.

Thanks for the ideas. I underestimated (or perhaps forgot) the importance of the sub chassis. This is the problem when you’re out of the market and not using the gear for a while I think. 

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59 minutes ago, Dasher said:

You could keep your eyes open for a pre-owned Keel, I picked one up recently for £1800.

I don't use a Urika but a Uphorik - it increases the box count but is a fantastic phono stage and more flexible on cartridge choices - ex demo ones can be had for less than £1500 and they appear quite regularly. If you wish to take advantage or the Radikal and use a Urika then you could look at a Urika 1, these are plentiful on the used market. Also, with either Urika, you get to sell on your Trampoline - which frees up another £100. This is one way of increasing your speaker budget - personally though I would put the savings into a better arm.

Thanks - I’ve wondered about buying Linn stuff second hand. How do you get the components assembled - say in the case of a Keel or a Urika? Would a Linn dealer do that? 

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24 minutes ago, Billy Collins said:

Thanks - I’ve wondered about buying Linn stuff second hand. How do you get the components assembled - say in the case of a Keel or a Urika? Would a Linn dealer do that? 

They should, especially if it’s unmodified, but expect them to charge for labour and sundry items. Unless, of course, you are spending big with them and make it a condition of the sale.

’troll

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Super Wammer
40 minutes ago, Billy Collins said:

Thanks for the ideas. I underestimated (or perhaps forgot) the importance of the sub chassis. This is the problem when you’re out of the market and not using the gear for a while I think. 

Hey no problem - that's where these types of forums can help .............. 😉

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25 minutes ago, Billy Collins said:

How do you get the components assembled - say in the case of a Keel or a Urika? Would a Linn dealer do that? 

I do it myself but if your asking such a question then I certainly wouldn't advise that you do the same. I've taken LP12s apart and put them back together again for the last 40+ years and, although you always have to start somewhere, I wouldn't start with a Keel, Radikal, etc simply because you are paying a lot of money for performance and the LP12 has to be set up right to provide that. An expert will get that performance out of the LP12 for you. The relationship with your dealer is also the key to sourcing the used components. There is little to go wrong with a  Keel (although abuse is always possible with anything). Others may well comment, as I have no experience of mounting an Akito on a Keel - but you will have to make sure that your Akito is compatible with the Keel arm collar. Unlike the other sub chassis  the Keel comes with the arm collar as an integral part of the chassis/arm board.

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The keel is not compatible with the Akito unless you are prepared to lose the lift lower device.

I would look at getting your Radikal upgraded to Mk2 spec at around £1800 plus a Karousel at £750. What is your existing sub chassis? If it’s a steel cirkus variety, then a change to a Kore at £800 would make a nice upgrade whilst being able to retain your Akito at full functionality.

A bit left field, but if you like Harberths, then do try and get a listen to the new M30.2XD with a Sugden A21 amp.

I don’t know if the power module in a Selekt would drive the Harberths adequately, the amp needs to be matched with care with speakers. You could add a Selekt with Katalyst as your main streaming source configured at line level out to the above Harberth/Sugden combo.

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I am intrigued by the Sugden / Harbeth recommendation. I loved the former M30s - have yet to hear the XDs. Thanks for cautioning regarding the Keel issue - I will check with my dealer. I am in the process of drafting an email with one or two scenarios to discuss with him based in these responses.

great message board - extremely informative and friendly. 

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Super Wammer

Since it's an Akurate LP12, Kore would be present. Since it's 2014 vintage, Karousel would not be.

LP12:

Karousel, Radikal 2 upgrade, Urika 2 (more optional than the first two, but maximizes the ROI of the Radikal).

I had a Cirkus, ARadikal, Kore, Ittok LVIII, Krystal, Urika 2 deck. It worked very well with a 530 system.

I heard a Cirkus, ARadikal, and Urika 2 equipped Akurate LP12 feeding a Selekt (with and without Katalyst), feeding passive Akubariks. This too worked very well.

Beyond the LP12, I'd say Selekt and Passive Linn 109s with stands. The speakers could be scaled up with a subwoofer.

From there, you would be one or two steps from Exakt.

Please keep in mind that the Selekt will be getting the Organik DAC at some point.

Edit: Reading an earlier post, it appears that you don't have the Kore. Add it to the list. I had one before Keel. It is really good. When I had it installed over the Cirkus subchassis, the improvement was such that I thought I was also realizing more of the potential of the Radikal that was already in place.

Edited by akamatsu
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This is not typically what most audiophiles want to hear, but IME a healthy budget towards room treatments is going to be paramount...and before even spending money on the front end! IMHO. 

Once you have got the room sorted, some great options in speakers...for your budget, I would suggest trying to listen to a pair of Magnepan 1.7i's or above. 

Edited by Daveyf
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20 hours ago, Billy Collins said:

I really like the idea of the Urika 2 - partly for the synergy with the Radikal, which I feel I never maximised since purchase

It is superb and one of the best upgrades I have done.  I wonder if Linn will improve it even further by including a scratch filer or click suppressor, which you could switch in if necessary with older albums. And there is a promise of even better sound with the Radikal upgrade. 

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12 hours ago, Daveyf said:

listen to a pair of Magnepan 1.7i

You need an ideal room for Magnepan speakers plus in UK or Europe you pay a significant premium. I could never get it quite right in my room. Bought them because I heard a demo and they were great, but a home audition is a must (more than any other speaker I have had). I now use Harbeth speakers in my second system instead. There is a noticeable difference is build quality; my Maggies are way behind Linn, Spendor, Harbeth and PMC. If I were living in North America then I’d give Maggies a try, but would be cautious elsewhere. 

Edited by Nestor Turton
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Super Wammer
6 hours ago, Nestor Turton said:

It is superb and one of the best upgrades I have done.  I wonder if Linn will improve it even further by including a scratch filer or click suppressor, which you could switch in if necessary with older albums. And there is a promise of even better sound with the Radikal upgrade. 

I was told that Linn demonstrated removal of surface noise from records with the Urika 2 to test subjects. They were not comfortable with no surface noise. Imagine if when the record reaches its end, there was only silence. Or when you drop the needle, nothing.

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6 hours ago, Nestor Turton said:

It is superb and one of the best upgrades I have done.  I wonder if Linn will improve it even further by including a scratch filer or click suppressor, which you could switch in if necessary with older albums. 

I tried one of these in the 1980s.....  destroyed the sound!  Don't know if modern digital electronics could do better (?)

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