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stefanher

Ultra high end hifi

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For someone pushing 4000 posts on a hifi forum, that's pretty sad. :(

(Fortunately) not all Audio enthusiast get a hard-on with high end porn. :hash:

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I certainly didn't take it as aimed at me.

What you say about the high end is something I have no experience of. I can hear "everything on the disc; every single note, every breath... " with quite modest equipment. I don't need neither to spend the sot of money High-End costs, nor to have the size, style or look of that equipment in my house.

As to the second point about the Fix, again I've never had it, so can't make any sensible comment about it. As mentioned previously, I have a very utilitarian view of the world. HiFi is a tool for me, just like my hammer, spanner or oscilloscope. I don't get excited about any of those, so equally don't get excited about HiFi equipment.

Finally, I think there is a further category of High End buyers, those that do because they can. The same people that buy diamond-encrusted mobile 'phones, £1000+ handbags or £10,000+ wristwatches. They like the exclusivity, the look and the pleasure of spending the money. High-End HiFi that caters to that level is not Audio Engineering. It's something completely different and something I fail to understand, and fail to get excited about.

What I do get excited about is certain musical performances and/or certain recordings, and it doesn't take a Mega system to achieve that, what I have does it fine.

S.

Great reply and very honest :^ although if you are comparing hifi equipment to a spanner and hammer then you will never get my point :doh:. I do, however, understand how your brain tick now. there is one point that I would like you to understand though.....I never take the outlook of Hifi & Watch comparison because my Mastersound is not a Cyrus with Diamond-encrusted (please don't take this persoanal dear Cyrus owner), I wear very cheap watch, I drive a boring car and I don't own any Prada Suit. I don't even bother tell people in the forum anymore about what Hifi I am using so, to me, that exclusivity that you think highend owner feel is very much miss-understood.

Why not look at it from the other end: if you get "involved" with your system then it's going to get in the way of music. :geek:

It's been proved time and time again that single audiophiles are much happier people.

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(Fortunately) not all Audio enthusiast get a hard-on with high end porn. :hash:

Top tip: Stop replying to stuff just for the sake of it, and stop being so deliberately obtuse. Actually, that's two tips. My, I am generous.

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Having participated in more blind tests than I'd care to remember and having seen Paul Miller repeatedly fail to correlate the measurements he made of the products tested to the subjective impressions of the listeners, (PM is shrewd enough to accept this & probably does measurement more thoroughly than anyone you could suggest) ultimately I'm not sure that reeling off a string of measurement specifications is of much use to the discerning blind listener. Unfortunately you actually still have to like the end result regardless of the measurements made.

That's good enough for me!

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Top tip: Stop replying to stuff just for the sake of it, and stop being so deliberately obtuse. Actually, that's two tips. My, I am generous.

Well said, i thought it was me being overly alert, but he never stops.

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You say

"I understand you very well. This disturbs me as well as the fact that with many systems the sound propagation of all instruments is presented in the same way. So you hear all instruments (too) focused or all diffused (like horns for example)."

When I hear a musician with a good sound (acoustic instrument), the first thing I listen to is the tone emanating from that instrument. It has to please me or I quickly lose interest. what am I looking for? A singing quality that projects out to me. projection is the important word here.

Every professional musician has the projection as one of the most important criteria for the choice of his instrument. When I am in a concert hall I'm aware of the projection of the different instruments and the harmony between them makes me enjoy so much orchestral music.

what I heard at scalford 2 years ago on a very high end system, could NEVER EVER have been mistaken for a real sax. It filled the space between the speakers. I was 10 ft away. If you stood 10ft in front of a strong sax player, you would hear a "beam " of sound coming at you, which would then spread out. An aural illusion? Yes, but it almost feels like a solid beam of sound coming out of the bell. You will not believe how many people , on hearing a sax played directly at them from 10 ft away, want to come close and look down the bell. what are they looking for. who knows, but I remember doing that myself when I first had a teacher with a good sound.

The point. How can 2 speakers placed 8/10/15 ft apart ever recreate the sound of a sax which has a bell 4 inches across. The one at Scalford filled the entire width of the space. It was loud and Im sure could have gone louder. But there was no " real" resonance. A real sax (or trumpet, cello, violin etc) resonates the air in a way you can almost see. A beam.

Brian, I'm not a believer that Hifi is meant to reproduce sound so near to the musicians as 10 ft even if the microphones are placed extremely close. This is depending of course how the recordings were done (mixed). Since there are very few people who prefer hearing instruments from such a distance, hardly any recordings are for that purpose. Therefore trying to compare the sound from a Hifi with any live sound 10 ft away from the musicians will fail if you are conscious about how it really sounds from that distance.

Actually I believe that the aural illusion can be heard better if you are 20 ft more away from the instruments than those 10ft you mentioned.

With respect to all those who make this next statement, it always makes me laugh.

" If I closed my eyes, I could imagine myself 10ft in front of a real , live string quartet" or " the sax was really there in the room in front of me" or some variation thereof.

Now, if it really does give them that feeling, then that is great by me. Whatever works for each individual is valid.

Well you shouldn't take their words as gospel. We know that the sonic waves in a concert hall or rooms (pubs, ...) aren't exactly the same as at home so it cannot sound EXACTLY the same.

Hifi is a sort of simulation and occasionally it can give a close perception of a live event. It also depends on which sound characteristics you prioritize. Since you're very concerned about the projection, you'll have more "problems" than someone who concentrate mainly on the coloration. Also don't forget that the brain forgets very quickly exactly how the sound was. Anyway as I said before 10ft away is according to me far too near.

For me that is not the goal. It would be unobtainable. I dont believe there is a system out there, at any price , that could replicate the sound of a sax or a trumpet, or a string quartet or a jazz trio, etc etc well enough to fool me into thinking that I was listening live. The sound coming at me is just not "right"

from a distance of 10ft I agree. Form a distance of 45 ft there could be some systems which could fool you. At least you could have a feeling that it sounds quite "right".

Live music is one form of musical enjoyment. Hi Fi reproduction of pre recorded music is another.

I'm glad that for me and for symphonic music they are nearly the same. The goal of hifi for me was always to be able to replace the concerts I go to.

I am not knocking this hobby of ours. I love it. It has opened new music to me and increased my enjoyment of recorded music. It is a very valid way of enjoying music.

Well I don't have problems if you show clearly the limits of the Hifi you heard up to now.

regards

titian

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Are you saying you can't remember what the kit was in these £150k systems? Don't be coy.
(Fortunately) not all Audio enthusiast get a hard-on with high end porn. :hash:
Top tip: Stop replying to stuff just for the sake of it, and stop being so deliberately obtuse. Actually, that's two tips. My, I am generous.

Sorry mate, but your deeply elaborate, thought provoking, always very much on topic, interventions are just too tempting... :pop:

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