s2000db

Formula One 2012

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Hi All,

Terry (Ozexpat) has raised a point that I have long thought about, that of the fact that very nearly all of the circuits have now

been made much less demanding on the cars and easier to drive than they once were. I do not count chicanes in what were

once fast sections as a driver or car challenge.

One of challenges has allways been overcoming the dangers and this has allways been the essense of motorsport wether you like

it or not. If as is happening all of the risks are continually being eliminated there will, in the not too distant future, be nothing to

motorsport except a means of a few people making truly huge sums of money for simply driving around.

In the golden age of motorsport, alas now long gone, it was the over coming of mechanical problems and the proving of drivers skills

that made motor sport.

I find it rather pathetic that drivers are told what tyres they have to use, that they are given a special button and are told when they

are allowed to press it to make the car go faster. They are also continually told how they must set various controls by people

outside the car. It is rightly termed as nothing less than outside assistance / control / influence and should stop.

I believe that it should be the driver who has sole command of the car. There is now so much technical interchange between the

pit/technical staff and the car/driver the cars could easily be driven by radio control and so remove the very last remaining vestiges

of risk. I would not mind betting that someone in F1 has considered how much money this would save and that they would probably

have implemented allready if they thought they could get away with it.

This is not all that far fetched as there is probably more thought given to making money than anything else.

F1 is the most unsporting motorsport of the lot. It is nothing more than a colossal global moneymaking circus.

Ever more people are seeing through the very clever hype and are becoming dissatisfied with what F1 has become and even moreso

because of some of the further ideas I have heard proposed such as closed cockpits. I wonder when front and rear bumper bars will

be introduced and the wheels shrouded.

None other than Stirling Moss and John Surtees, and possibly others for all I know, have stated that it is all being done wrongly now.

I am afraid that I am still far more impressed with motorcycle racing and racers than I am with the showbiz that is now F1.

Rgds

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Just watched highlights of the race having only seen the start and end. What an outstanding drive from Perez! I figured he got to second by the timing of his stop but no: he put some seriously tasty moves on everyone there.

I thought Vettel was lucky to get away with a drive-through for his shitty squeezing of Alonso. He seems to have forgotten the right way to do it

Roll on Singapore:^

I agree with both points you make:^

Well done to Alex Zanardi too:D.

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Hi All,.........I am afraid that I am still far more impressed with motorcycle racing and racers than I am with the showbiz that is now F1.

Rgds

Then watch motorcycle racing - it is indeed excellent:^

The missing element (formatting aside) from your point is this: The limit is the limit is the limit. Overtly techie or not, I think F1 represents - by and large - the best drivers finding the very edge of the limit and staying there*

*does not apply to Pastor Maldonado

edit: that sounds harsher than I meant it - you make some fair points, some of which I'd agree with a bit, but the driver is still the largest variable to the car / race / WDC *

*definitely does apply to Pastor Maldonado

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I believe that it should be the driver who has sole command of the car.

None other than Stirling Moss and John Surtees, and possibly others for all I know, have stated that it is all being done wrongly now.

Yeah, I agree with this but also Craig, the limit is the limit, whatever the circumstance. My heart always says I want to watch 'Man' or Woman(!) race not machine, electronics etc/whatever, but the reality is different, I'd love to see a NASCAR style F1 (brute force and ignorance).

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I remember going to the Grand Prix in the 1960's when I was very young and at every race meeting a driver would die, sometimes killing spectators in the process. I too want to see the driver winning the race by driving a car and not by being the best computer game operator but I would not want to go back to those days of my childhood. I presume that rocker65 would not object when his family was killed this way and probably enjoys mountain climbing without a safety harness or does he want a safe life for himself whilst watching others dying needlessly in the name of sport. Bring back Jousting to the Death I say!

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I remember going to the Grand Prix in the 1960's when I was very young and at every race meeting a driver would die, sometimes killing spectators in the process. I too want to see the driver winning the race by driving a car and not by being the best computer game operator but I would not want to go back to those days of my childhood. I presume that rocker65 would not object when his family was killed this way and probably enjoys mountain climbing without a safety harness or does he want a safe life for himself whilst watching others dying needlessly in the name of sport. Bring back Jousting to the Death I say!

Hi GR1,

Your presumptions are incorrect and stupid. To try and make a point by inventing such fantasies is pathetic.

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Hi GR1,

Your presumptions are incorrect and stupid. To try and make a point by inventing such fantasies is pathetic.

The point stands though- cutting through to the nub of the argument, you prefer a greater chance of seeing someone die in a fireball. This is fine- many people like the Gladiatorial element of sports but this isn't what F1 is about. You generally make the same point about every eight weeks reminding us all how much better bikes are. F1 is as much a technical arms race as a driving tete a tete and has been for decades. Skill still counts though- or perhaps you can elaborate on what external influence got Alonso up seven places to third and Perez up eleven places to second and why this magic formula wasn't effective on their team mates driving the exact same car?

Ultimately the past was great, especially when viewed through the telescope of nostalgia but we aren't going back there.

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The point stands though- cutting through to the nub of the argument, you prefer a greater chance of seeing someone die in a fireball. This is fine- many people like the Gladiatorial element of sports but this isn't what F1 is about. You generally make the same point about every eight weeks reminding us all how much better bikes are. F1 is as much a technical arms race as a driving tete a tete and has been for decades. Skill still counts though- or perhaps you can elaborate on what external influence got Alonso up seven places to third and Perez up eleven places to second and why this magic formula wasn't effective on their team mates driving the exact same car?

Ultimately the past was great, especially when viewed through the telescope of nostalgia but we aren't going back there.

I do not "prefer a greater chance of seeing someone die in a fireball" so do not try to put words into or twist the meaning of my post.

There will allways be exceptions to any and every generalisation ref such as the drives of Alonso and Perez which you mention.

I do not see anything wrong with my mentioning my greater appreciation of 'bike racing and all of it's demands.

Rgds.

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DIGEST 13

While not the most technically interesting circuit, Monza is a great race. The atmosphere is second to none. Some different challenges in the layout make this a track which (under the current rules) should throw up a great race. This it certainly did. In spades.

*Firstly, whatever his failings, Stefano Domenicali should walk into the Sauber garage, pay Monisha whatever she asks for and get Perez in that 2nd Ferrari straight away. I can think of no better driver in the #6 car to push Alonso and the team (with the exception of a certain Aussie). He's hungry and to learn at the heels of Fernando would also make him raise his game. It's a win-win.

I rate this as one of the drives of the season. He looked completely out of it 20 laps into the race. Two stunning passes on Kimi, Alonso and virtually anybody else. If he had a shot of their sponsor's Tequila for every great pass, he would probably have to be subbed for Singapore.

*Strong race from Alonso. A solid, sensible drive. I still love his mock histrionics !

*Massa had a decent drive. But..............see above.

*Paul Di Resta's driving has come in for some comments in this thread already. But, while he turned in a better performance, he should have been penalised for squeezing Senna.

*On the subject of squeezing.....I can imagine some rather colourfull German being squealed after Seb was told about his penalty. We all know he doesn't understand that he can't get away with murder just because he decides that it's OK.

*On a brighter note, you have to love the grief on Christian Horner's face. Firstly from Vettel's penalty, then his alternator failure (well, the engine is French) and then thirdly when (with completely "shot" rears) Webber spun out and had to retire.

A double failure at Red Bull gives them whinge.

*Button was unlucky to have to pull off (oo er missus) but his race was already compromised. Of interest (to me, anyway) was his moan after the race about the "slow" pitstop. It was 4.8 secs FFS ! It just shows how far we've moved on.

*Micky Shoes had a good race. Again. Rosberg did not.

*Back to the subject of poor driving........where was Maldonado ? I don't think he knows how to race without running into another car, so he trundled around well down the field. Not what Williams needs.

*Hamilton put all the questions over his future in a locker with his iPad and led from lights to flag (excepting pitstops). A mature race but then as others have proved, it's easier to lead when not challenged. Not exactly "drivin' like a Mofo !"

Off to the Far East and Singapore next. I shall watch with envious eyes as I thoroughly enjoyed the atmosphere and heat down in the pit lane last year.

Hopefully another cracking race awaits.

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Rosberg drove a stonking 2nd half of the race, to be fair to him. Otherwise, as usual, get thee to wordpress, forums.autosport.com, f1techincal.com/forums and take this to a wider audience

Meanwhile, family-archive footage has emerged from Roman Grosjean at an early age

Grosjean_002.gif

Kudos to Carlos @ Autosport Forums

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Sorry to spam this thread (again) but thought this was worthy of attention

James Allen now seems convinced that Lewis is going to Merc and I don't think he'd be so certain if there were not a nod, a wink and a blind man involved

I'm sure this will get more discussion if and when it goes through, but other than thinking Lewis is a berk, I feel a bit sorry for Schuey getting shuffled to the exit door again.

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I wonder if Rosberg is on the move? Or is Schuey going all management position, after all he's got to have some reason to get up in the morning?

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I wonder if Rosberg is on the move? Or is Schuey going all management position, after all he's got to have some reason to get up in the morning?

I've often thought that Schuey would slip quite comfortably into a management role within F1. He still gets to satisfy his competitive streak while really giving some of his experience to a team. His diplomacy is as good as any team principle. He is a great motivator and, within certain circles, is well respected. Until Mercedes came along, I assumed that team would be Ferrari.

During his retirement, he was involved with FIA driver safety programs aimed at road users. Maybe there's something that his old boss Jean Todt has in mind for him.

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So then...

Hamilton to Mercedes

Schumacher to Ferrari

Massa to the knackers yard

:D

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