falcoron

Interconnects, what made your jaw drop?

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I think all manufacturers and dealers should have to do to this same ABX blind test on the cables they manufacture/sell.

If they can't reliably identify when their cable is playing compared to the most basic red and white ones (even in a system they have supplied themselves) then surely they should be done for fraud if they still attmept to sell their cables as some sort of sound quality upgrade. :?

I agree. Manufacturers should not make claims of audibility that they cannot substantiate. Most cable manufacturers make no such claims.

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I think it's telling that the few of them there are mostly operate at the saner end of the food chain price and hype wise, and so far as I can see most of their sales are of the cheaper sorts.

A good example would be someone like Mark Grant* who has a limited range of conductors, and stratifies the range by offering different plugs with varying levels of mechanical integrity, with the foo-ier stuff being there chiefly through customer demand/expectation so far as I understand it...

Makes sense to me.

The real foil-helmet nutjobs like 'Zanash' late-of-this-forum don't seem to last long...

* with whom I have no connection

:^

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Quite right Paul

The point so many miss in these debates is that the Placebo effect is real and expectaition bias is real. It has a real effect.

So for a skeptical audiophile like me, I know that having well made cables will stop me worrying about them. They will take away that doubt and allow me to relax. Just that peace of mind is enough to allow me to enjoy the music more. That alone brings a subjective benefit. That benefit is worth something. So people like MCRU, Mark Grant, Paul et al will get business from me. Not becuase I think the signal could be anyway improved, but becuase I know that a good mechanical solution has a value to me from a peace of mind perspective. And becuase none of them have ever come on here and try to tell me black is white.

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I have no issue with johnniebaby's post. I class it as 'fair comment.'

"You're making yourself look stupid now" is not in any way disrespectful, quite the opposite in fact.

I find the vacuous tittle-tattle of your post above a little wearing though.

Thanks for your very eloquent vacuous tittle-tattle, first class and more neg rep too. I find Rabskis post refreshing and would welcome a face to face - he seems calm and dignified undeserving of your posting style attacking his findings. I find it difficult to respect your belittling style in the Rabski post.

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Quite right Paul

The point so many miss in these debates is that the Placebo effect is real and expectaition bias is real. It has a real effect.

So for a skeptical audiophile like me, I know that having well made cables will stop me worrying about them. They will take away that doubt and allow me to relax. Just that peace of mind is enough to allow me to enjoy the music more. That alone brings a subjective benefit. That benefit is worth something. So people like MCRU, Mark Grant, Paul et al will get business from me. Not becuase I think the signal could be anyway improved, but becuase I know that a good mechanical solution has a value to me from a peace of mind perspective. And becuase none of them have ever come on here and try to tell me black is white.

Yes. One of the most interesting effects in medicine is not just that the Placebo effect works, but when you tell people they are getting a Placebo, it still works! How cool/crazy is that?

There seems to be a feeling in audio that if you "admit" to your susceptibility to Placebo, your cock will fall off and you have "lost the Internetz". The news is we are all hard coded to react towards Placebo, so stop trying to swim upstream.

Me, I'm Placeboing my arse all over the place. :)

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I prefer solid core but it's not very practical.

I can't be bothered to read the thread, has anyone flounced yet:P

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Thanks for your very eloquent vacuous tittle-tattle, first class and more neg rep too. I find Rabskis post refreshing and would welcome a face to face - he seems calm and dignified undeserving of your posting style attacking his findings. I find it difficult to respect your belittling style in the Rabski post.

If there was 'neg rep' today it didn't come from me.

I was quite respectful of rabski's findings, genuinely so.

There is some real odious shit-stirring going on with the above post.

I will refrain from 'neg rep'ping it though. It just isn't worth it...

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To be fair, the game has been up for a number of years. Just a few audiphiles chasing rainbows, and non-technically minded folk baffled by the marketing bullshit buying expensve cables these days. Most of us that have seen the light use either pro audio stuff, DIY or well made cheap cables There are a few who have seen the light that still use the expensive wires because they bought them, so they'll use them. It won't be long before the wheels come off the cable gravy train.

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With respect, you don't see music, you hear it. The whole point of the eyes being involved is that there is obvious bias in play.

Look, nobody is claiming this is the ultimate proof in terms of testing. The sample is relatively small, though 90 tests should be enough to be statistically significant. There are doubtless some holes in the methodology as well, as time constraints limited the length of music samples and choices of music. The cables were also in a relatively high signal position, between pre and power amps. This was, after all, part of someone's Master's thesis. Nevertheless, it was by no means a bad test and everything was carefully measured to level-match.

To me, the figures mean zilch. What matters to me personally is that I had previously been convinced there was a difference, yet in a properly-conducted blind test, I couldn't hear one.

Of course, there are other factors. Decent cables should be mechanically robust and I doubt the cheap ones we used would stand up to much plugging and unplugging. There are issues about proper screening. Further, we only tested my ANs against a cheapo. I havde no doubt that an alternative with, for example, high capacitance, would make a difference. The point is that one cheap vs one not at all cheap that measured the same, sounded the same.

Rabski

I was stating what I trust not querying yours. In fact I welcomed your post well done. Sorry to see the graceless reaction of some

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To be fair, the game has been up for a number of years. Just a few audiphiles chasing rainbows, and non-technically minded folk baffled by the marketing bullshit buying expensve cables these days. Most of us that have seen the light use either pro audio stuff, DIY or well made cheap cables There are a few who have seen the light that still use the expensive wires because they bought them, so they'll use them. It won't be long before the wheels come off the cable gravy train.

No fear - not as long as the magazines keep hyping them up. WTF seems to be the most influential: they have persuaded large numbers that naim and Cyrus are absolutely fantastic, despite the fact that almost anyone with working ears can detect that they aren't! :D

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Rabski

I was stating what I trust not querying yours. In fact I welcomed your post well done. Sorry to see the graceless reaction of some

What, where?

No, on second thoughts, please don't answer that.

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No fear - not as long as the magazines keep hyping them up. WTF seems to be the most influential: they have persuaded large numbers that naim and Cyrus are absolutely fantastic, despite the fact that almost anyone with working ears can detect that they aren't! :D

Lol

:^

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