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Sugden


fred sonnen

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Just thought I´d ask. I´ve just tried some Rothwell -10dB attenuators on the input of my A21SE. I didn´t need to because I only use vinyl so have no problem with Line Level from my phono stage but just thought I´d try  to see what happened. I know some people complain that the Sugden Alps pot is craftily slugged to appear to give loads of power in the first 25% of its track so people rarely turn them up more than say further than 10 to midnight. Anyway, I think I like it, it´s like dropping into overdrive and everything seems a bit more effortless and even sweeter and I suspect treble has improved. Could it be because the pot is working nearer its optimum range ? I now have it more like 5 past midnight.  More anon.

Edited by Alvolake
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3 minutes ago, Alvolake said:

Just thought I´d ask. I´ve just tried some Rothwell -10dB attenuators on the input of my A21SE. I didn´t need to because I only use vinyl so have no problem with Line Level from my phono stage but just thought I´d try  to see what happened. I know some people complain that the Sugden Alps pot is craftily slugged to appear to give loads of power in the first 25% of its track so people rarely turn them up more than say further than 10 to midnight. Anyway, I think I like it, it´s like dropping into overdrive and everything seems a bit more effortless and even sweeter and I suspect treble has improved. Could it be because the pot is working nearer its optimum range ? I now have it more like 5 past midnight.  More anon.

Volume control potentiometers are not linear, they are logarithmic.  The volume control pot is behaving as it should.  Attenuating the input level by 10db will reduce the input level substantially.  Suprised the Sugden has a problem with the input signal.  Tried the Rothwell attenuators a few years back and they made the sound dull, especially at higher frequencies.  

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Dull, no way. Quite the opposite in my case. But I am talking about results with vinyl. My phono is a tuned Puresound P10 (valves).

Surely a log pot may indeed be logarithmic but over a wider range.  There´s no way you could turn it up anywhere approaching full wack and my speakers are not especially efficient.

The reason for trying the attenuators was because I lent my A21Se to a mate who has the A21a and who  uses both vinyl and CD and  he phoned me to say he nearly sh*t himslf when he turned the power up. Theory says its only 5w more but the impression was of 3 or four times as powerful as the A21a. Since then I have read of several people criticising the fact that Sugden have slugged the pot somehow to make its logarithmic gain in the first 25% and then it levels off.

No idea what´s happening but I like it a lot so far.

Edited by Alvolake
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Super Wammer
55 minutes ago, Alvolake said:

Dull, no way. Quite the opposite in my case. But I am talking about results with vinyl. My phono is a tuned Puresound P10 (valves).

Surely a log pot may indeed be logarithmic but over a wider range.  There´s no way you could turn it up anywhere approaching full wack and my speakers are not especially efficient.

The reason for trying the attenuators was because I lent my A21Se to a mate who has the A21a and who  uses both vinyl and CD and  he phoned me to say he nearly sh*t himslf when he turned the power up. Theory says its only 5w more but the impression was of 3 or four times as powerful as the A21a. Since then I have read of several people criticising the fact that Sugden have slugged the pot somehow to make its logarithmic gain in the first 25% and then it levels off.

No idea what´s happening but I like it a lot so far.

@Ron Hilditch is right, all such pots are logarithmic. I'm pretty sure Sugden haven't done anything "clever" here. My IA-4 behaved just as I would expect of any integrated.

The closer you get to full volume on the control knob, the less wire you're pushing the signal through so this should definitely give you a cleaner sound, as long as the Rothwells don't use a load of wire to attenuate the volume (hint: they don't).

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I am pretty sure that 60% of my A21SE´s gain is controlled by the first 25%  of the pot´s travel (up to a quarter to position) and that most people never use their A21Se at anywhere near half travel (the o´clock position) and that attenuators give you more control and the pot works better. I would have thought this would be of more interest to CD users than vinyl.

Well, in any case, for what they cost, if anyone feels their A21SE is “ a bit over-revved” at any time, I suggest you try them or similar, for a bit of relief.

Edited by Alvolake
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This is actually really really good.

I've listened to music for hours now. Tune after tune. Each one makes me grin.

@radiant red you've waxed lyrical about this amp. First impressions are very good indeed. No rash decisions from me as to which I keep. But it sounds niiiiiiice!!!!

Mighty pleased with my purchase so far 👍

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On 08/02/2021 at 20:18, Alvolake said:

Just thought I´d ask. I´ve just tried some Rothwell -10dB attenuators on the input of my A21SE. I didn´t need to because I only use vinyl so have no problem with Line Level from my phono stage but just thought I´d try  to see what happened. I know some people complain that the Sugden Alps pot is craftily slugged to appear to give loads of power in the first 25% of its track so people rarely turn them up more than say further than 10 to midnight. Anyway, I think I like it, it´s like dropping into overdrive and everything seems a bit more effortless and even sweeter and I suspect treble has improved. Could it be because the pot is working nearer its optimum range ? I now have it more like 5 past midnight.  More anon.

Many years ago I bought some Rothwells out of curiosity, when I had my A21a and I read posts about various amps and the volume control not going past 9 o’clock. I thought they made a big difference for the better. 

Edited by lower bullens
Confusion
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Super Wammer
17 minutes ago, Amormusic said:

This is actually really really good.

I've listened to music for hours now. Tune after tune. Each one makes me grin.

@radiant red you've waxed lyrical about this amp. First impressions are very good indeed. No rash decisions from me as to which I keep. But it sounds niiiiiiice!!!!

Mighty pleased with my purchase so far 👍

Looking good Pete, glad your enjoying it. 
and that’s what it’s all about 👍🏻

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1 minute ago, radiant red said:

Looking good Pete, glad your enjoying it. 
and that’s what it’s all about 👍🏻

As a positive, it's cold tonight but I can probably turn off all my heating 😂

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Super Wammer
1 minute ago, Amormusic said:

As a positive, it's cold tonight but I can probably turn off all my heating 😂

Yes, those fins get warm or hot but completely normal. The space you described looks absolutely fine 👍🏻

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Looking good ,....get the fork out and a crust and treat yourself to some toast .....:nerves:

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5 minutes ago, deggie said:

Looking good ,....get the fork out and a crust and treat yourself to some toast .....:nerves:

Thinking I fancy a fried egg 😂

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  • 2 weeks later...

Having now been listening to music a lot since this arrived, it would have to be something super special indeed to dethrone this in my living room.

It is absolutely superb, imo.

In combo with the Jolida and PMC's it is perfect in my room. This is, for me, a long-term keeper.

I think my constant-box-swapping-sometimes-sideways-but-upgraditis bug may finally be cured! Wow!

Truly an excellent amplifier.

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