2 channel system for £6k - not incl. speakers

hearhere

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 9, 2013
1,371
1,182
158
Portsmouth, UK
AKA
Peter
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Of course it’s subjective but maybe you could give some examples of these all-in-one wonders with streamer and phono.
Well I am biased, although before deciding I home auditioned a dozen amps (inc a few all-in-ones) in the £3-8K range. I chose the excellent NAD Master Series M33. In fact I chose the earlier M32 over the other amps I tried, but upgraded when the M33 became available.

I've had it for 3 years now and am well pleased with it. I don't use any analogue inputs so I can't comment on its phono abilities. The Stereophile review (written after my purchase) describes its features in detail. It was subsequently awarded Stereophile's Best Amplifier of the Year, Best Component of the Year and Editor's Choice of the Year. Not sure if any other product has ever picked up all 3.

It uses Purifi's Eigentakt amp module (built in house under license after tweaks by NAD, includes all the inputs and outputs you're likely to need and has Dirac Live available for those with complex speaker systems who can't get them properly set up without resorting to room correction DSP. I don't use it.

I also tried the Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 at a similar price. Sounded quite good but I preferred the NAD by a significant margin. It offers an excitement factor that I've rarely experienced elsewhere, but my speakers are a contributory factor too.

With a 10% dealer discount, a real bargain that I doubt can be matched for under £10K. I will try though (probably requiring a Hegel H390 or H590 and a Rose or similar streamer) as the outlay on my M33 is disproportionate to the investment in my speakers

I also tried the Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 at a similar price. Sounded quite good but I prefered the NAD by a significant margin. It offers an excitement factor that I've rarely experienced elsewhere, but my speakers are a contributory factor too.

With a 10% dealer discount, a real bargain that I doubt can be matched for under £10K. I will try though as the outlay on my M33 is disprooportionate to the investment in my speakers
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jezzer

hiesteem

peacebro
Wammer
Feb 6, 2019
1,921
1,666
133
AKA
Pete
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Not systems per se, but have auditioned the following amps so far...

Supernait 3
Rega Aethos
Moon 240i
Moon 390 / 330A
NAD M33

I have a lot of vinyl but I reckon streaming will be utilised most - probably 70/30 I supect -streaming being 70%

Room size about 4m x 8m
And what were your thoughts?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jezzer

Smonks

Newbie
Wammer
Dec 12, 2022
73
90
33
Leeds, Yorkshire
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
And what were your thoughts?

Well, they all sounded a damn site better than anything I'm used to - current amp is an old Audiolab 8000a so the level of clatity and detail was vastly improved.
I think initial listens to the supernait and Aethos were complicated by the speakers - some Neat Motives which were very nice, but didnt have enough bass and impact for me so I will listen to both again with the focals,
The Moon sounded nice through the Pro Ac D32R (i think) but the listening room was awful, all plain walls, hard floor and no soft furnishings so the reflection issues were terrible - Im not a fan of the moon look and they were also getting pretty pricey.
The M33 sounded good but in a room with 2 walls of floor to ceiling windows hard walls covered in tv's so again pretty woeful acoustics. Its a good value proposition but a little worried about longevity and having all my eggs in one basket so to speak!
I'm not very good at listening to stuff weeks apart on different speakers and in different rooms as I really need to to do direct comparisons. I guess once I have some speakers I will home audition amps, but then again i need to home audition the speakers and ideally borrow an amp too as my audiolab is pretty much retired due to an intermittent fault. It's very difficult as i have no single constant at present so I was thinking the focal is a good deal, use those as a base to start building a system and then potentially upgrade the speakers at a later date.
 

hiesteem

peacebro
Wammer
Feb 6, 2019
1,921
1,666
133
AKA
Pete
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Well, they all sounded a damn site better than anything I'm used to - current amp is an old Audiolab 8000a so the level of clatity and detail was vastly improved.
I think initial listens to the supernait and Aethos were complicated by the speakers - some Neat Motives which were very nice, but didnt have enough bass and impact for me so I will listen to both again with the focals,
The Moon sounded nice through the Pro Ac D32R (i think) but the listening room was awful, all plain walls, hard floor and no soft furnishings so the reflection issues were terrible - Im not a fan of the moon look and they were also getting pretty pricey.
The M33 sounded good but in a room with 2 walls of floor to ceiling windows hard walls covered in tv's so again pretty woeful acoustics. Its a good value proposition but a little worried about longevity and having all my eggs in one basket so to speak!
I'm not very good at listening to stuff weeks apart on different speakers and in different rooms as I really need to to do direct comparisons. I guess once I have some speakers I will home audition amps, but then again i need to home audition the speakers and ideally borrow an amp too as my audiolab is pretty much retired due to an intermittent fault. It's very difficult as i have no single constant at present so I was thinking the focal is a good deal, use those as a base to start building a system and then potentially upgrade the speakers at a later date.
Thanks for the write-up. You could buy the Focals, but are you sure you want to build a system around them?
 

Smonks

Newbie
Wammer
Dec 12, 2022
73
90
33
Leeds, Yorkshire
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Thanks for the write-up. You could buy the Focals, but are you sure you want to build a system around them?
No, I havent heard that many speakers to be honest but limited by what's available in my region. I listen to systems at dealers and think yeah, thats a great sound....most sound really nice, but whether Im going to find one that really knocks my socks off and lets me know that's the definite sound i want is another matter. I could go on forever I reckon.
I've just today been reading up on Rogue Audio amps - a dealer near me stocks them and a number of their amps get impressive reviews - yet more options!! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: hiesteem

dhansak

Wammer Plus
Wammer Plus
Aug 24, 2021
342
676
148
Edinburgh
www.danielwebb.online
AKA
danaudio
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Everyone is going to recommend what they have, I guess. I will share my recent journey with you as it might help.

I started afresh around 12 months ago with a similar budget to yours. I tried a few things and am happy with where I ended up.

Just over a year ago, I was running a reasonably modest system which comprised of:
  • Rega RP3 with Exact
  • Moon 110LP phono stage
  • Arcam A85 integrated amp
  • RPi and a Topping DAC
  • Monitor Audio Gold 100s
Most of my listening is on vinyl, so I focused on analogue playback only.

I was offered a Rega P8 at an excellent price from a friend who works in the industry as he was upgrading his deck to a P10. I could justify this quite quickly as I knew that if I decided to sell later, I would probably profit — £1,500 spent.

I was then in the position where my amplifier was the weakest link in my system.

With a budget of around £1500-2500, I tried a few amps:
  • Naim Nait 5si - this was one of the biggest disappointments of my HiFi 'career'! I was not impressed with the build quality. The product felt very dated, like something from the 1970s, built by British Leyland. The famous Naim sound that everyone raves about - no idea - it just didn't sound good at all. I returned the amp within a few days.
  • Cyrus i9-XR - This sounded relatively lean and dry to me - again, quite disappointing. I didn't see what all the What Hi-Fi fuss was about.
  • Having been very happy with my Moon 110LP, I spotted a second-hand Moon 340iX on eBay and took the plunge. I had a dealer's extended demo of the 240 the previous year and was impressed with it. Beautifully built and gelled with me. It stayed, and I am delighted with it.
I had spent £4,000 and was happy with where I'd landed.

The next logical step was to look at the phono stage. This had become the weak link in my turntable-focused system.

I engaged a good friend, @Tim F, to help me find the right phono stage. I was on holiday in Madeira and received a call from him saying he had found a Gold Note PH-10 with the matching PSU-10 at Elite Audio near where I live going for £1,500. I made the call and paid the money.

I spent £5,500 and reached a great place. The front end is very satisfying for my taste.

As things go, I then spotted a used Meridian G68 on eBay for £600. I had a Meridian system 19 years ago and loved it, so I took a punt on this to give me some decent digital connectivity for TV, movies, games consoles and my background streaming listening. Again, I knew I could sell this for more if I weren't happy. I used the Home Theatre mode on the Moon to bypass the preamp when using the Meridian - this has been an excellent solution for me.

Finally, for completeness, although I know you are not interested in talking about speakers, I got a pair of Dynaudio Special Forty and a REL T7/x a few weeks ago. With that, my system is complete for the time being.

I love it—£ 6,100 for the system, not including the speakers.

I would love to hear how you get on.
 
Last edited:

StingRay

Legend Wammer
Wammer
Apr 27, 2016
13,040
8,521
163
Suffolk coast, UK
AKA
Ray
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Well I am biased, although before deciding I home auditioned a dozen amps (inc a few all-in-ones) in the £3-8K range. I chose the excellent NAD Master Series M33. In fact I chose the earlier M32 over the other amps I tried, but upgraded when the M33 became available.

I've had it for 3 years now and am well pleased with it. I don't use any analogue inputs so I can't comment on its phono abilities. The Stereophile review (written after my purchase) describes its features in detail. It was subsequently awarded Stereophile's Best Amplifier of the Year, Best Component of the Year and Editor's Choice of the Year. Not sure if any other product has ever picked up all 3.

It uses Purifi's Eigentakt amp module (built in house under license after tweaks by NAD, includes all the inputs and outputs you're likely to need and has Dirac Live available for those with complex speaker systems who can't get them properly set up without resorting to room correction DSP. I don't use it.

I also tried the Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 at a similar price. Sounded quite good but I preferred the NAD by a significant margin. It offers an excitement factor that I've rarely experienced elsewhere, but my speakers are a contributory factor too.

With a 10% dealer discount, a real bargain that I doubt can be matched for under £10K. I will try though (probably requiring a Hegel H390 or H590 and a Rose or similar streamer) as the outlay on my M33 is disproportionate to the investment in my speakers

I also tried the Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 at a similar price. Sounded quite good but I prefered the NAD by a significant margin. It offers an excitement factor that I've rarely experienced elsewhere, but my speakers are a contributory factor too.

With a 10% dealer discount, a real bargain that I doubt can be matched for under £10K. I will try though as the outlay on my M33 is disprooportionate to the investment in my speakers
Only issue with all in ones, if something goes wrong or you want to change one part, it means changing everything. I use BluOs as well, everything was fine for about 2 years until they did an update last April, after that I had problems streaming Qobuz, which is my preferred service, others on here here have has similar issues with BluOs and Qobuz. Really fed up with it. I switched to Tidal, no problems and now Deezer, no problems. I'm considering changing my streamer this year. I don't find BluOs that special but not tried any others, I will be trying Innuos and Auralic streamers. I have active speakers so all in ones, no use to me.

 

StingRay

Legend Wammer
Wammer
Apr 27, 2016
13,040
8,521
163
Suffolk coast, UK
AKA
Ray
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I've been looking at amps etc and getting recommendations/suggestions for these, but out of interest, and perhaps to throw some other contenders into the melting pot, what would you put together for £6k...

The £6k does not include the cost of speakers (possibly going to be using Focal Aria K2 936 but yet to audition - 92db sensitivity, 8ohns down to 2.4ohms) or turntable.
I also already have a REL T7X and will possibly be using a Rega RP6 or RP8,

Must have System Requirements for £6k....
Amplifier
DAC
Streamer ( access to Tidal / Qobuz)
MC Phono Stage or input for and external MC Phono Stage ( could be MM as not purchased yet )
Speaker cables - pair x 2m terminated with bananas ( thinking Tellerium Q Black II as a minimum )
Interconnects if needed.

Nice to have. but not essential...
HDMI eARC ( listen to tv through the system - could use optical out for sound if necessary )

Happy to consider ex-demo or secondhand if in excellent confition and not difficult to find s/h. Less money would be good, but also happy to wait and spend a little more if necessary.

So, what would you put together for this budget? ( I know this is all subjective and it depends what i like the sound of, just fishing for ideas of things to consider/audition )
Not sure how you can built a system, if you don't know, what speakers you are going to use. I think you should try to demo some active speakers, if suitable, then you just need to add a streamer.
 
Last edited:

CnoEvil

Legend Wammer
Wammer
Aug 7, 2018
9,865
9,948
148
Northern Ireland
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I have skimmed through the thread - so apologies if I repeat anything.

What is your eventual budget for speakers?

I was thinking that having some speakers in mind before choosing the Amp could prove sensible - and then I saw Rabski suggested it.

If you go Amp first, be prepared to try it with a variety of speakers to find the best match.

I'm with those who wouldn't choose Focal - but if they were a deal breaker, I'd be avoiding anything with a clinical or bright presentation.....The old MF AMS stuff worked well and I suspect the Nu Vista range would as well.

Other brands might include Pathos, Electrocompaiet, Sugden, Unison Research Unico, Luxman, Accuphase and powerful valve amps. Some of these will be outside budget if not found second hand.

I would try Sugden/ProAc and see what you think. If you like it the rest can be figured out.

Another possibility is Gato DIA 250S (has DAC and can be spec'd with streamer) with Kef R Series.

Another option might be the Kef LS60 actives.

I like Linn Streamers - but the rest of the system needs to got right first and a Node 2 would get you by if necessary.

IMV. You need to get out and listen to as much as you can. Set a benchmark, which then changes if it's beaten. That benchmark could, for example, be some Kef LS60s.
 
Last edited:

Jezzer

Unspecified Wammer
Wammer Plus
Jul 31, 2005
9,958
1,986
208
Uxbridge
AKA
Jezzer
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Dynaudio’s active speakers have been getting great reviews (The Focus 30 is Darko’s product of the year for example)
 

ChemMan

ChemMan
Wammer
Aug 8, 2018
2,893
2,205
148
Brussels
AKA
Steve
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
A few have said, start with the speakers first. That's sage advice. While synergy of components is a real thing, speakers and room interaction are pretty much 1-2 in regard to the ultimate quality of sound. I would find speakers and then look for the rest.

Brand new the Hegel 390 gets you more amp than you need and a streamer/dac. And you'll have a smidgen left over for phono stage. Buy used and you get more. Like @DomT said, I've heard a fair few amps through my own speakers and you could not do much better than the Hegel for the price. After hearing it, I have no doubt I would not bother with a DAC on top. YMMV.

I'd say find the right speakers get the Hegel if it's a nice match and spend €400 on the Isoacoustic Gaias. I got more from them than five DACs ranging from €500 to 3.5K
 
  • Like
Reactions: Smonks and deggie

Lurch

Piss-taker & Gobshite Par Excelle'nce
Wammer Plus
Sep 17, 2016
5,994
7,417
183
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
There's a couple of H390s in the PFM classifieds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hiesteem

Smonks

Newbie
Wammer
Dec 12, 2022
73
90
33
Leeds, Yorkshire
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
There's a couple of H390s in the PFM classifieds.
Yes, I've had my eye on the one I am aware of, at a good price too, but it's down south and I've yet to hear the H390 and don't want to buy it without ever having heard it. I believe it's an amp on the warm side of neutral?

StingRay mentioned lisrtening to active speakers....I have listened to the ATC SMC40A hooked up to ATC SCA2 - about £15k for that pairing, and it was the worst sound I've ever heard! initially, whilst playing some MIles Davis the sound was wonderfully clear with great separation but something was missing so I moved on to some female vocals and again it sounded nice but there wasn't any depth. I then tried some Led Zeppelin and Communication Breakdown - fast and bright guitar riff and it was unbearable, my wife and I recoiled in horror and had to turn it off, it was so bright it was painful. That was a good lesson learned as I coveted those speakers and they were a huge disappointment.

I then listened to the ATC SMC40 paired with the Rega Aethos and that was a marked improvement on the actives but they didn't sound 'wow'. Of course it may be that it wasn't a good pairing, but the sound just didn't come close to qualifying their price tag when listening to my musical tastes.

We were saying our goodbyes to the dealer when he asked if I had heard focals, as I hadn't he offered to quickly set up some of the Aria 906 (he didn't have any floorstanders in stock and was sold out of the kantas ). Again paired with the Rega. We were both impressed and considering they were about a seventh of the cost of the ATC's we still thought they were a better overall sound - not perfect, but nice enough to warrant further exploration into the brand. I know they have a reputation for being bright but we didn't find that to be the case at all, compared to the active 40's they were positively warm!

I'm quite sure the ATC's are excellent speakers, perhaps they suit certain types of music more than others, and good pairing is essential, but it was a valauble lesson that day as speakers I had coveted fell way short, and were beaten by others (im my experience) that were, on paper, inferiror speakers. A great example that personal taste doesn't equate with value.

I was a bit concerned that I wasn't hearing right so went and had my ears micro suctioned and had a hearing test - all clean now and my hearing has been given the all clear. The search for that aural sweet spot continues!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: deggie and hiesteem

Lurch

Piss-taker & Gobshite Par Excelle'nce
Wammer Plus
Sep 17, 2016
5,994
7,417
183
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Another speaker worth wrapping your ears round that hasn't been mentioned yet (?) is the Q Acoustics C500, great performers, look good and serious VFM.
 

tackleberry

Wammer
Wammer
Jan 28, 2010
4,176
1
2,315
158
Leeds..ish
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
  2. No
Yes, I've had my eye on the one I am aware of, at a good price too, but it's down south and I've yet to hear the H390 and don't want to buy it without ever having heard it. I believe it's an amp on the warm side of neutral?

StingRay mentioned lisrtening to active speakers....I have listened to the ATC SMC40A hooked up to ATC SCA2 - about £15k for that pairing, and it was the worst sound I've ever heard! initially, whilst playing some MIles Davis the sound was wonderfully clear with great separation but something was missing so I moved on to some female vocals and again it sounded nice but there wasn't any depth. I then tried some Led Zeppelin and Communication Breakdown - fast and bright guitar riff and it was unbearable, my wife and I recoiled in horror and had to turn it off, it was so bright it was painful. That was a good lesson learned as I coveted those speakers and they were a huge disappointment.

I then listened to the ATC SMC40 paired with the Rega Aethos and that was a marked improvement on the actives but they didn't sound 'wow'. Of course it may be that it wasn't a good pairing, but the sound just didn't come close to qualifying their price tag when listening to my musical tastes.

We were saying our goodbyes to the dealer when he asked if I had heard focals, as I hadn't he offered to quickly set up some of the Aria 906 (he didn't have any floorstanders in stock and was sold out of the kantas ). Again paired with the Rega. We were both impressed and considering they were about a seventh of the cost of the ATC's we still thought they were a better overall sound - not perfect, but nice enough to warrant further exploration into the brand. I know they have a reputation for being bright but we didn't find that to be the case at all, compared to the active 40's they were positively warm!

I'm quite sure the ATC's are excellent speakers, perhaps they suit certain types of music more than others, and good pairing is essential, but it was a valauble lesson that day as speakers I had coveted fell way short, and were beaten by others (im my experience) that were, on paper, inferiror speakers. A great example that personal taste doesn't equate with value.

I was a bit concerned that I wasn't hearing right so went and had my ears micro suctioned and had a hearing test - all clean now and my hearing has been given the all clear. The search for that aural sweet spot continues!
I’m surprised by your experience with the ATC setup. What source was used?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hiesteem

martinpix

Wammer
Wammer
Nov 17, 2014
580
353
103
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Try a Hegel H390 and hook up a decent phono stage and your good to go , the hegel's dac is fantastic and as long as you can attach a network cable either from your router or like I do use a wifi extender with a network port the streamer is also exellent , you have to use 3rd party apps though but not a problem, the sound is far bigger than you'd expect. works with room or any streaming subscription. I use an app called myconnect to stream from my NAS and to use amazon music . even airplay sounds listenable which I did not expect. Demo one you will be hard pushed to beat it. If you're in Leeds and can travel try Moorgate Acoustics in Sheffield im sure you could sort a home demo. im selling a whest titan phono stage advertised on here best phono stage you find used anywhere for the money SHAMELESS PLUG!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
113,444
Messages
2,451,263
Members
70,783
Latest member
reg66

Latest Articles