845 mismatch

Frizzy brizzy

Wammer
Wammer
Feb 3, 2013
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Laurie
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I recently purchased a Art Audio Carissa to partner some Living voice obx rw, in spite of trying several pre amps with the combo I cannot eradicate a hard forward sound to the upper mids.

i have tried changing power valves ( the originals were dying) and those in the Vpl pre, the only ones I haven't are the 6922 and 12bh7 in the Carissa,they are I'm told newish EH types so should be fine. Cables are all kondo.

I have moved the speakers and amps in case of feedback, tried different mains supplies, put in and taken out bass absorbers.

The room I'm in is a old cottage with concrete floor and solid walled, I have had kit work in here so I am certain the fault lies with the Carissa, as the hard forward sound is present when its in place.. I am wondering if its the only art audio amp that does not suit Lv, or am I missing something.

I looked around the wam and swapped notes before purchase to see if Lv owners used the 845 valve,

help needed, otherwise I will soon be listing 1 or 2 systems.

tempted to do a interest check on selling the lot and start from scratch. I love the obx but bought them when I had a very large sub sprung floored room, and I think they hate the smaller space.

 

ERICLIMPIT

Wammer
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Mar 13, 2013
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Roger
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Interesting to hear that as I recently used 845 valves in the Viva little solista with the art deco8 speakers, and like you tried various things but just can't make it sound right (to my ears) I also tried Audions black shadow 845 monos which sounded a little better but still sounded quite dark and hard, and not a patch on the Audion 300b monos, so maybe is it that the 845 tube is an acquired taste? dunno,but if you do decide to sell your obx rw's please put me at the top of your list ;-) .

 

i_should_coco

Wammer
Wammer
Sep 21, 2006
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Papa Lazarou uses a New Audio Frontiers 845 amp and his system always sounds superb, one of the best .LV systems I've ever heard. Not all 845 amps sound the same by any stretch of the imagination.

 

awkwardbydesign

Perfect, apparently.
Wammer
Mar 5, 2012
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What is the impedance curve of the speakers? The output impedance of the amp could be a mismatch with a low, or a phase change, of the speakers, causing a hardening of the sound. Or I could be talking out of my arse.

 

Tel

Wammer
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Aug 13, 2006
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Hove Actually
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Kevin
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How big is the room and how are the LVs positioned?

A photo from the listening position would be helpful

 

i_should_coco

Wammer
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Sep 21, 2006
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What is the impedance curve of the speakers? The output impedance of the amp could be a mismatch with a low, or a phase change, of the speakers, causing a hardening of the sound. Or I could be talking out of my arse.
LVs are developed using SE valve amps, so it doesn't seem likely that it's a gross mis-match like that.

 

falcoron

Wammer
Wammer Plus
Jan 17, 2006
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RON
Any 845 amps i have heard are very different to a 300b amp no doubt about that, the Carissa Laurie now owns was mine and i loved it even with my 105db efficient speakers. Very detailed but smooth but not pipe and slippers by no means, the art was made for the American market according to Tom Willis of Art and i can hear what he means by that. Pre amps did make a big difference and i heard that a lot when trying different types. I think a small room with wooded floors may well be a problem i have a biggish room with hard concrete floors and never had an issue. But it just may be you dont like the carissa sound. I bought a very expensive Hovland sapphire amp and know the reviewers raved about it all over the world, a wammer from Ireland has and loves his but i can honestly say it was the worst sounding amp i ever owned bar non. so just goes to show what i like or anyone for that matter may not suit others, its a mine feild buying hi fi blind, sometimes its good sometimes it just dosent work. Think if you could get some wammers round with amps for a small bake off that will show you if the amp is not to your tastes or you have major room issues. my brother tried for years to get a great system sounding good eventually gave up and built his own room, never looked back, even cheap stuff sound great.

hope you get sorted mate

 

Frizzy brizzy

Wammer
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Feb 3, 2013
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Laurie
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Thanks folks. I will try and talk to Kevin at definitive when he's back from his travels about it.

I have been trying with little success to get this system singing sweetly for too long now, might just be the time to be brave and pass it on and start from scratch on kit more suited to my new living room.

any serious offers on the amps, pre an power, art audio and Berning let me know.

i have no idea what obx rw are worth as i have never seen a pair for sale. In burr oak new are near £12k without the kondo speaker links. So I must work out prices, you can see why trade ins are popular, less hassle, I'm too ill for all this bull****.

again thanks for all your help and good wishes recently.

 

Purite Audio

Wammer
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Jan 29, 2007
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Keith
I really would advise you to acoustically measure your room, before you sell or change anything,a measurement will highlight the specific problems , your room has a huge influence, changing kit may not cure the underlying issues.

Keith.

 

falcoron

Wammer
Wammer Plus
Jan 17, 2006
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Belfast, , United Ki
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RON
I really would advise you to acoustically measure your room, before you sell or change anything,a measurement will highlight the specific problems , your room has a huge influence, changing kit may not cure the underlying issues.Keith.
Great advice, and to be honest a hi fi dealer may not be able to help with room issues unless you know what they are. kevin is a great bloke i have had several really interesting converstaions with him, but at the end of the day its selling gear he is about so just dont rush in with a cheque book yet. I'm sure someone with the knowhow to measure your room lives near you and can help, i know its difficult with your health to get about so just ask, this is what forums like this are really good for with some stirling guys on here to lend a helping hand.

good luck, and dont give up it will all get better im sure. The gear you have is stuff of dreams for some folk i just cant see why it would not sound great, im a real LV fan i used to own them and would again at a heart beat so hang on in there and get some advice on the room first.

 

ESK

Wammer
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Oct 25, 2005
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Euan
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I owned the Carissa before Ron and it served we well for many years. Changing the 12bh7 won't do much and the 6922 although changing the sound ever so slightly, will not cure the problems you are having.

I also tried it with OBX R2s and I just could not get them to behave in my room at all. My room is in a modern build house and is about 6m by 4m so not particularily small. The LVs were given plenty of room to breath and I toiled hard with toe-in etc but in the end they made me stop listening to music.

After trying a few pairs of speakers, I got rid of the LVs and kept the Carissa. It stayed with me for quite some time before the box swapping bug hit me.

If I moved to a house with a smaller room and had to make do with the Carissa again then I would in a heartbeat.

Euan.

 

Frizzy brizzy

Wammer
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Feb 3, 2013
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New forest
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Laurie
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Hi folks, the room is 11ft by 17ft with ceiling 9ft. Concrete floor, solid brick non cavity walls. Built in 1850's I think.

I did get my maths head on once and calculated the room nodes, and yes they are not good, esp I think for the obx.

as I said I have had them sing sweetly with some border patrol kit, but the stuff kept breaking down. That's why I got the 845.

i do like all the individual bits of kit, it just does not like each other.

As others have stated obx and art audio go well together as do 845s , I have had Lv in one form or another for 12 years so I am used to getting them to work.

 

RobsterD

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 7, 2007
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Southampton
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Hi folks, the room is 11ft by 17ft with ceiling 9ft. Concrete floor, solid brick non cavity walls. Built in 1850's I think.I did get my maths head on once and calculated the room nodes, and yes they are not good, esp I think for the obx.

as I said I have had them sing sweetly with some border patrol kit, but the stuff kept breaking down. That's why I got the 845.

i do like all the individual bits of kit, it just does not like each other.

As others have stated obx and art audio go well together as do 845s , I have had Lv in one form or another for 12 years so I am used to getting them to work.
Laurie ,I can bring my Trinnov ST2 over it may help

 

i_should_coco

Wammer
Wammer
Sep 21, 2006
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What does any of this have to do with the hard upper mids?

(except dealers who sell room correction stuff pushing their wares).

 
G

Guest

Guest
Indeed. Come on Keith. I know you are fanatical about room correction, but you sell the gear so you can't talk about it in 2 channel.

 

Purite Audio

Wammer
Wammer
Jan 29, 2007
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London, UK
AKA
Keith
Dom Hi, where have I mentioned anything I sell?

I suggested that acoustically measuring the room might be a good idea and posted a link to a room node calculator.

Keith.

 

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