A bit of an epiphany regarding volume

[karlsushi]

I have been incredibly fortunate to borrow some seriously decent kit from a couple of wonderful local Wammers over the last couple of days (report on this impending).

I have always been a fan of cranking up the music when I'm enjoying myself, but it seems to me that the better quality the system gets, this seems to have the effect of encouraging me instinctively to listen at what can need best described as the 'correct' volume.

The level of realism and transparency on offer just seems to lend itself better to relatively moderate volume levels, more commensurate with how the music was recorded.

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[bigfish786]

I have noticed that since buying the Triangle speakers I can “enjoy” music at lower levels And don’t necessarily need to drive them so hard to get the impact of my previous speakers.

 

[Fourlegs]

I have been incredibly fortunate to borrow some seriously decent kit from a couple of wonderful local Wammers over the last couple of days (report on this impending).

I have always been a fan of cranking up the music when I'm enjoying myself, but it seems to me that the better quality the system gets, this seems to have the effect of encouraging me instinctively to listen at what can need best described as the 'correct' volume.

The level of realism and transparency on offer just seems to lend itself better to relatively moderate volume levels, more commensurate with how the music was recorded.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I am slightly familiar with the kit which has been loaned to you.

I wonder whether the new volume/loudness you are hearing is real or illusion? What I mean by that is I often find that when I improve certain aspects of my system the volume might stay the same but the music seems to be less ‘loud’ and consequently less fatiguing.

 

[HollyJohnsen]

I feel exactly different. I did a big upgrade and greatly improved my very good system. Of course, the system convinces when listening quietly, but it brings an insane amount of fun to drive volumes that I did not drive before.

 

[TheFlash]

I am slightly familiar with the kit which has been loaned to you.

I wonder whether the new volume/loudness you are hearing is real or illusion? What I mean by that is I often find that when I improve certain aspects of my system the volume might stay the same but the music seems to be less ‘loud’ and consequently less fatiguing.

That’s not how I read Karl’s post, but I could be misinterpreting either his or yours! I think Karl was cranking it up to get a realistic snare strike or double bass pluck but on clearer kit he doesn’t feel the need to.

 

[Fourlegs]

That’s not how I read Karl’s post, but I could be misinterpreting either his or yours! I think Karl was cranking it up to get a realistic snare strike or double bass pluck but on clearer kit he doesn’t feel the need to.

It is not how I read his post either and I do agree with what you say but I thought it worth suggesting that perceived loudness is not the same as measured volume.

 

[karlsushi]

I wonder whether the new volume/loudness you are hearing is real or illusion? What I mean by that is I often find that when I improve certain aspects of my system the volume might stay the same but the music seems to be less ‘loud’ and consequently less fatiguing.

This is a very interesting point. You may be right.

I think the answer may be that there are numerous types of systems. Your wonderful Chord DAVE @Fourlegs has certainly taught me what it's like to listen to ultimate 'accuracy'. Overall, this seems to identify itself as smooth and relaxed.

But I am sure we have also all had great fun listening to electronic or rock music at chest-thumping ear-bleeding levels in a night-club or live music venue. Accurate? Detailed? Transparent? Probably not (and certainly not compared to what this DAVE is handing out in my living room right now). But enjoyable? Oh yes indeed!

Is there a system that does both?

I'm not so sure.

 

[SiB]

Sadly in my current situation I don’t have much choice other than to listen at lower levels most of the time.
I’m sure the better the equipment, the lower the noise floor & the less volume needed to hear ‘into’ the recording.
I still enjoy music at low levels, however on the rare occasions I can crank things up to realistic levels I find I’m far more immersed in the music.

 

[TheFlash]

This is a very interesting point. You may be right.

I think the answer may be that there are numerous types of systems. Your wonderful Chord DAVE @Fourlegs has certainly taught me what it's like to listen to ultimate 'accuracy'. Overall, this seems to identify itself as smooth and relaxed.

But I am sure we have also all had great fun listening to electronic or rock music at chest-thumping ear-bleeding levels in a night-club or live music venue. Accurate? Detailed? Transparent? Probably not (and certainly not compared to what this DAVE is handing out in my living room right now). But enjoyable? Oh yes indeed!

Is there a system that does both?

I'm not so sure.

I’m not sure either: pick a side!

 

[DUVET]

Sometimes we want to listen and also feel the music . Drums

 

[rabski]

For me, it goes both ways.

The better the system, the less the volume matters. The same level of detail and information is available without needing to shake the floor. On the other hand, the quality does not diminish when the volume goes up, even to somewhat 'enthusiastic' levels.

 

[pmcuk]

I never listen loud - just don't like it. I get everything I want at medium volumes. And often listen at lower volumes.

The system has to sound wonderful at lower volumes, which is where my 2a3 SE tube amps are in their best range.

 

[HollyJohnsen]

Sometimes we want to listen and also feel the music . Drums

Cello ....

 

[tuga]

My experience is that very low distortion equipment can be played much louder but also sounds better (more detailed) at low sound pressure levels.

Equipment which distorts more sounds perceivably louder.

This can be easily determined with a dB meter.

 

[popol_vuh]

I have been incredibly fortunate to borrow some seriously decent kit from a couple of wonderful local Wammers over the last couple of days (report on this impending).

I have always been a fan of cranking up the music when I'm enjoying myself, but it seems to me that the better quality the system gets, this seems to have the effect of encouraging me instinctively to listen at what can need best described as the 'correct' volume.

The level of realism and transparency on offer just seems to lend itself better to relatively moderate volume levels, more commensurate with how the music was recorded.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Well, what I've found so far:

- there definitely is a "correct" volume for each particular record IMO. That's the spot where everything just opens up, becomes really present, but there's no overloading the room. IMO, that's always quite "loud" (on several systems I've had), but not too loud.

- the better the system, the higher you can go in volume without imbalances and irritations in sound. Really good systems have a strange quality that you can turn them way up and at the same time talk to a person next to you without shouting and that person can hear you just fine. The level to which you can go is, of course, also dictated by the room. There's volumes where you can hear that the room can't take it.

- I don't think that the most realism and transparency is achieved at "moderate" volume levels. What I talked about above is definitely not "moderate". Moderate is just fine, but a bit louder than that is the most realistic and transparent IMO. Of course, this level of loudness has nothing to do with what people who are not into hi-fi do - turn the volume way up until everything overloads both the system and the room and becomes a mess.

- With all the above - I'm not saying that level are necessary to enjoy - even low level is good, but if I'm talking from the standpoint you pointed out - "realistic" and "transparent", then louder than moderate is better.

I am slightly familiar with the kit which has been loaned to you.

I wonder whether the new volume/loudness you are hearing is real or illusion? What I mean by that is I often find that when I improve certain aspects of my system the volume might stay the same but the music seems to be less ‘loud’ and consequently less fatiguing.

I've found the same.

 

[MVJ]

For me, it goes both ways.

The better the system, the less the volume matters. The same level of detail and information is available without needing to shake the floor. On the other hand, the quality does not diminish when the volume goes up, even to somewhat 'enthusiastic' levels.

I agree with this 100% & thats exactly what I have found since adding my active speakers

 

[popol_vuh]

But I am sure we have also all had great fun listening to electronic or rock music at chest-thumping ear-bleeding levels in a night-club or live music venue. Accurate? Detailed? Transparent? Probably not (and certainly not compared to what this DAVE is handing out in my living room right now). But enjoyable? Oh yes indeed!

Is there a system that does both?

I'm not so sure.

I'd like to comment on this since I have a relevant experience that I really treasure to this day. I know exactly what you mean by "chest thumping", "ear bleeding" levels of live rock music. I've spent most of my youth at various alternative clubs and seen many alternative rock concerts. 90% of them were overly loud, ear-piercing, indistinct because of loudness...but fun in their own way.

However - I've seen one live electronica concert of electronica duo called "Pan sonic"...some 15 years ago. The concert was in a place resembling an art gallery - rectangular big room, whole floor on the same level (no "stage"), Pan sonic had their equipment on two desks at one end of the room and they had two huge full-range floor-standing speaker systems in front of them, pulled about 1/4 into the rectangular room, with moderate toe-in, just like you'd setup a hi-fi system in such a room. the whole crowd was very disciplined and we all stayed well behind the line between these two speakers (they had nothing between them) the whole concert. Now, the sound there was something absolutely without parallel. At the same time - extremely loud, extremely distortion-free, extremely high resolution, extremely high dynamics. Stuff like white noise sounded non-piercing and like you could hear individual sound fragments within this noise. There were parts of the concert where there was complete silence, but the bottoms of your trousers were shaking...and I mean, they were shaking around your ankles, but around your knees they were perfectly still. At some other parts, there was such a bass punch that there was absolutely no "boom", but you would feel physical punch in the centre of your chest - incredibly localized an tight. I distinctly remember once they did some kind of sweeping sound where you felt like your body was scanned by sound vibration...from bottom of your pants to your belly (nothing shaking at the same time, but like a scan moving bottom-up). Mids and highs - so incredibly open, in perfect balance, no distortion. The space never shook, you never felt like anything is falling apart. Simply indescribable. This sounded at the same time like the absolute best hi-fi system I've ever heard, no contest at all, and like a concert.

 

[popol_vuh]

The better the system, the less the volume matters. The same level of detail and information is available without needing to shake the floor. On the other hand, the quality does not diminish when the volume goes up, even to somewhat 'enthusiastic' levels.

Even when I can hear all the detail and information in right ratio and proportions, as well as spatial properties of music on lower volume level - the music stays quite "intellectual" for me if I stay at that point. Only if I go louder, does it become more physical and more real. That's how I personally experience this and why I always go louder, if I can.

 

[tuga]

I would add that with high quality electronics the weak link is the speaker. Small speakers will generally start “screaming” at lower levels.
Another limiting factor is the room size and acoustic characteristics

 

[tuga]

I'd like to comment on this since I have a relevant experience that I really treasure to this day. I know exactly what you mean by "chest thumping", "ear bleeding" levels of live rock music. I've spent most of my youth at various alternative clubs and seen many alternative rock concerts. 90% of them were overly loud, ear-piercing, indistinct because of loudness...but fun in their own way.

However - I've seen one live electronica concert of electronica duo called "Pan sonic"...some 15 years ago. The concert was in a place resembling an art gallery - rectangular big room, whole floor on the same level (no "stage"), Pan sonic had their equipment on two desks at one end of the room and they had two huge full-range floor-standing speaker systems in front of them, pulled about 1/4 into the rectangular room, with moderate toe-in, just like you'd setup a hi-fi system in such a room. the whole crowd was very disciplined and we all stayed well behind the line between these two speakers (they had nothing between them) the whole concert. Now, the sound there was something absolutely without parallel. At the same time - extremely loud, extremely distortion-free, extremely high resolution, extremely high dynamics. Stuff like white noise sounded non-piercing and like you could hear individual sound fragments within this noise. There were parts of the concert where there was complete silence, but the bottoms of your trousers were shaking...and I mean, they were shaking around your ankles, but around your knees they were perfectly still. At some other parts, there was such a bass punch that there was absolutely no "boom", but you would feel physical punch in the centre of your chest - incredibly localized an tight. I distinctly remember once they did some kind of sweeping sound where you felt like your body was scanned by sound vibration...from bottom of your pants to your belly (nothing shaking at the same time, but like a scan moving bottom-up). Mids and highs - so incredibly open, in perfect balance, no distortion. The space never shook, you never felt like anything is falling apart. Simply indescribable. This sounded at the same time like the absolute best hi-fi system I've ever heard, no contest at all, and like a concert.

I can’t imagine worse torture!

Hope you were wearing ear protection.