A brace of Posselt Albatrosses, Arcam A49, Border Patrol 300B, Chord Hugo TT2, Meridian transport

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
No, I always use the TT2 with Filter 1 because I find the others a bit veiled. I thought the TT2 sound through the Posselts was just right.

Perhaps Nigel ( @TheFlash ) is more a pipe and slippers kind of listener than I thought he was and if we repeat the experiment then he can play with a softer presentation filter . . . . or it could just be his expectation bias that was getting in the way. :)
I am. Well, I enjoy clarity and detail but I am realising belatedly that they impress me more than they engage me, and what I find myself getting lost in musically is probably far from the hi-est of fi. Like valves recently. Like my former Class A FLS10. I found the TT2 impressive - seriously impressive - and enjoyable. Usually I tend to fidn Chord kit serously impressive but not notably enjoyable. I can't tell you why.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

eddie-baby

Wammer
Wammer
Feb 28, 2009
6,813
3,803
158
Pembrokehsire
AKA
Eddie
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Yes, but usually the trajectory is upwards...
This is always highly subjective Nigel :D

Jokes aside speakers from the early days are just as good as anything around today, this has been covered before. Good speakers are good speakers, age shouldnt really come into it. Early 1970s LS3/5As still are as good as anything 2019 can offer, better even as far as Im concerned.

 

rabski

Everything in moderation
Staff member
Dec 2, 2006
32,873
1
26,119
173
Kettering
AKA
Richard
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
IIRC at one point Vifa shifted their production to China PLC and mightily pissed off Kevin Scott in the process. Vifa insisted the Chinese-built drivers performed identically to the previous generation, Kevin's ears suggested otherwise. LV drivers are still based on the original Vifa unit but are now made to Kevin's spec by ScanSpeak, all of which necessitated changes to the crossover

Quite feasible the change in drive units was effectively forced upon your chap rather than being a deliberate choice on his part, whether cost-based or not.
I completely forgot that, but it's spot on. I vividly remember a conversation with Kevin in which he was, shall we say, a little strongly spoken about the issue.

 

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I hear you (both).

Even I, non-measurist that I am, would have thought that with the hugely detailed specs available for just about any driver, if it performed to that spec then it would sound like others which also did. Measurements, eh. Overrated.

I may have good news tomorrow re driver availability. Watch this space.

 
  • Upvote
Reactions: rabski and Tony_J

notevenclose

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 31, 2007
2,557
923
158
Perth, Scotland
AKA
Miles
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
It's going back a few years, but I seem to recall Vifa first denied there was any change in production, then having subsequently acknowledged Chinese manufacture, insisted the new units measured identically to the Danish-built ones. It was that sequence of events which led to Mr Scott, how can I put it, channeling his inner 'Duke of Edinburgh.'

It's not the first time they've encountered this, with cabinet construction as well as drive units. Most recently it turned out to be part of the impetus behind the development of the R25A.

I'm sure there are other loudspeaker designers just as fastidious, so in your case it may be unfair to assume the different drive unit was chosen purely as a cheaper option.

We had noticed a change in the appearance of the diaphragm material of the R3R HF unit – a slight alteration in colour – and so we decided to compare the performance of these new units to our reference HF unit. There was a clear correlation with a change in its performance. We had previously learnt from the RW3 project that even if a diaphragm material is apparently identical in specification, with the same weight, warp, weft, and chemical composition, but comes from a different producer, there can still be profound performance differences – even if these aren’t measurable.

 
  • Upvote
  • Like
Reactions: joolz and TheFlash

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
It's going back a few years, but I seem to recall Vifa first denied there was any change in production, then having subsequently acknowledged Chinese manufacture, insisted the new units measured identically to the Danish-built ones. It was that sequence of events which led to Mr Scott, how can I put it, channeling his inner 'Duke of Edinburgh.'

It's not the first time they've encountered this, with cabinet construction as well as drive units. Most recently it turned out to be part of the impetus behind the development of the R25A.

I'm sure there are other loudspeaker designers just as fastidious, so in your case it may be unfair to assume the different drive unit was chosen purely as a cheaper option.

We had noticed a change in the appearance of the diaphragm material of the R3R HF unit – a slight alteration in colour – and so we decided to compare the performance of these new units to our reference HF unit. There was a clear correlation with a change in its performance. We had previously learnt from the RW3 project that even if a diaphragm material is apparently identical in specification, with the same weight, warp, weft, and chemical composition, but comes from a different producer, there can still be profound performance differences – even if these aren’t measurable.
Firstly, subject to confirmation tomorrow, it appears that Vifa and Scanspeak may have hung onto the design rights when the business was sold to Tymphany; there may be new stocks of the original driver available and now with the Scanspeak badge. I don't care where they're made if they have passed Scanspeak QC.

Secondly, I did not assume the different drive unit was chosen purely as a cheaper option. I merely asked the question aloud. That's different, that is.

I do wonder though why (another question, you see) if someone was disappointed by the quality of drivers being delivered for installation in their labour of love speaker, they would go to this particular driver rather than any other. I'm flummoxed. Great word.

 

notevenclose

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 31, 2007
2,557
923
158
Perth, Scotland
AKA
Miles
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Secondly, I did not assume the different drive unit was chosen purely as a cheaper option. I merely asked the question aloud. That's different, that is.
I was only speculating as to one possible answer

I do wonder though why (another question, you see) if someone was disappointed by the quality of drivers being delivered for installation in their labour of love speaker, they would go to this particular driver rather than any other. I'm flummoxed. Great word.
Sorry to frame this in terms of LV, (again) but they are the speaker company of whom I have greater insight into the design process than any other –there was an early review of the original OBX-RW which incorrectly stated it was wired internally with Kondo cable. Understandable perhaps and they'd certainly tried it but had preferred a cheaper alternative. If Kevin had genuinely felt the Kondo had sounded better, he'd have used it and adjusted the price accordingly.

Similarly, I know he considers certain 'designer' components, one brand in particular, over-rated, not just in terms of application in crossovers but amplification stages, so they'll always go with what sounds best rather than what might be the 'perceived high value' option. 

On the other hand of course, could be your chap just found a job lot of dodgy bass drivers in a skip and decided to press those into service while trousering a few quid, who knows?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Haha
Reactions: TheFlash

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
And anyway actually the black ones seem to disappear a tad more in that room I'd say.
In that room possibly. But they will live in this room... black would be striking (and match TV and fire) but the teak is more in keeping materials-wise; they're more like a piece of furniture.

img_5377.jpg img_5384.jpg

 

eddie-baby

Wammer
Wammer
Feb 28, 2009
6,813
3,803
158
Pembrokehsire
AKA
Eddie
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
In that room possibly. But they will live in this room... black would be striking (and match TV and fire) but the teak is more in keeping materials-wise; they're more like a piece of furniture.

Crop-PopaChubbyTinFoil-copy.jpg image.jpg
Hmm, yes I can see your point. To me they better looking than the atc. As you say more like furniture or artwork even. 

Set of future ones would look good in there as well though, but maybe not as funky. 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/88725922@N08/w71np8





 




 

TheFlash

Also available in pink
Wammer
Jun 22, 2013
12,479
8,343
208
Rural Leics [system 1] & Kendal [systems 2 & 3]
AKA
Nigel
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Hmm, yes I can see your point. To me they better looking than the atc. As you say more like furniture or artwork even. 

Set of future ones would look good in there as well though, but maybe not as funky. 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/88725922@N08/w71np8

 
I did look at the Futures a while ago and should perhapd have investigated properly but they got only modest reviews and seemed rather pricey. Good lookers though, reminiscent of my Thiel CS 2 2's but less aggressive due to the angled side panels. Very nice.

 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,444
Messages
2,451,263
Members
70,783
Latest member
reg66

Latest Articles