Linn Owners

A preposterous tweak, Radikal 2

ThomasOK

LP12 Whisperer, Lejonklou importer
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Oct 19, 2018
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Thomas O'Keefe
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Blinded testing (single blind is probably the best you can do in the audio setting) is the gold standard for credible scientific testing. Unless the observer is unaware of the test objects, placebo effect, expectation bias, etc, are unavoidable.
I've never felt blind listening tests are necessary even though blind people do generally hear better than sighted ones. ;)

That said, the four clips I mentioned having posted above were blind to all the people who were listening to them and nobody had any difficulty hearing the differences between the clips. The biggest difference, as I noted, was between the KRadikal right side up and the ARadikal right side up, with the former unanimously preferred.
 

Nestor Turton

Nestor Turton
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Jan 30, 2019
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Sure, I also like to know why. But if the explanation is not available because "we" don't yet understand how to measure it, then I'm happy with what my brain is telling me.
In my case, for example, I've read the explanations about why the Radikal works on my LP12. But I hear an improvement that goes beyond --for me-- the technical explanation. So I move on happily until a more satisfying explanation comes along.
I agree if a home audition is possible, as it should be in UK as we have the right to return goods within 7 days (14 if bought online) then buying if you are hearing an improvement is the best way.

However, my main interest is listening to music. Some recordings are not the best quality so I want them to sound as musical as possible. If I feel the urge to buy more audio kit then I need a way to narrow the field down. I don’t really want to audition lots of products and so I need a way to narrow it down.

I do not find subjective reviews with no supporting measurements in UK HiFi magazines of any help. So measurement and a plausible scientific explanation are the criteria I have used to decide upon products to audition. There are other factors such as support, build quality, ease of use, and if possible local manufacture.

Now I have two systems Linn and Chord Electronics and as I’m delighted with both I will most likely not look beyond them (though recent price rises by both have made me wonder about this strategy). I avoid aftermarket boutique products; Linn supplies cables so no need to look further, Chord does not so I use Canare and Van Damme (if they are good enough for Abbey Road then that’s good enough for me).

So when Linn released Radikal 2 there were only a few questions: could I afford it, hear an improvement and what casework. I didn’t bother with checking out measurements and science.

Unfortunately, the answer to my first question for the Organik upgrade is “No’ - too costly for me at this time. Perhaps when the war stops and prices fall again then I’ll look again.
 

mskaye

mskaye
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  1. Yes
  2. No
there are a similar number of paths to audio insanity. Coincidence...?
Not at all. In any hobby, esp. this one where there is such passion and mystery, you're bound to make some questionable/silly decisions along the way. So many choices. So many salesmen. So much to read and aspire too (sometimes incorrectly.)
I'd say more paths, but that's just my perspective.
I think you're 1000% correct. The danger at least - when I think of my errors - is to be impulsive and complicate matters. More rather than less.
 

anatius

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Oct 27, 2021
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I feel that a lot of perceived changes in sound quality are based on how one feels on the day; what you have suffered what you have enjoyed rather like humour what is funny one day may not be funny the next. It is very hard to admit that the very expensive equipment you have just purchased sounds worse than the equipment you have replaced. The other thing I experience is that one quickly loses the thrill that a newly acquired increase in sound quality brings although there are exceptions. In the end it all belongs in the music.
 

petecallaghan

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No, it isn't. However, the electronics underlying its reproduction are science-based.
I suspect that the gap in understanding between the science of electronics and the listener experience is much greater than the knowledge encompassed by the science.

The behaviour of electronics in audio equipment is the subject of engineering, not science, and measurements only help if you both measure the right things and also understand entirely the relationships between the listener's subjective experience and the measurements.

We are very clearly not in that position yet.
 

rabski

Everything in moderation
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Dec 2, 2006
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I suspect that the gap in understanding between the science of electronics and the listener experience is much greater than the knowledge encompassed by the science.
I have to disagree on this point, but for the reasons that others have already noted. Electronics, electronic engineering and physics are at the state of development in which the understanding of matter and energy is extremely advanced and comprehensive. However, the understanding of the human condition? Less so. Compared with physics, psychoacoustics is in its infancy.

My system quite often sounds notably better in the evening than it does in the morning. It would be very easy for me to come up with a great many theories involving all sorts of physical effects. In reality, it is far, far more likely that quite simply I am a lot more relaxed and well fed in the evening.

Human hearing is capable of discerning extremely small changes in direct comparisons. Nevertheless, it has been proven beyond doubt that it is equally very poor at determining such differences when there is some time in between. Further, human perception can often be fallible, unreliable and subject to influence.

'I think, therefore I am', may sum up the human condition. 'I hear, therefore it exists,' is sadly far from always being true.
 

Nestor Turton

Nestor Turton
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If you played the same CD twice and asked me which I thought sounded better I would probably say one or the other. If you then disclosed they were played on exactly the same system it would not surprise me in the least. Fortunately science would tell me my listening test was less than perfect.

That said, I have always felt vinyl sounded better than CD after hearing the Moody Blues "Days of Future Passed" on vinyl compared with "The Very Best of Des O'Connor" on CD. My grandma thought the opposite. Isn't life strange. I have no scientific explanation for this.

We are all different so I doubt an engineer could build a system that we all agreed was unsurpassed and so it seems to me building one that measures well is very sound idea.

Yes and I still believe in Magnus Pyke from those daze when science was cool.

 

Tony_J

Gone fishin'
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Mar 4, 2013
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Human hearing is capable of discerning extremely small changes in direct comparisons. Nevertheless, it has been proven beyond doubt that it is equally very poor at determining such differences when there is some time in between. Further, human perception can often be fallible, unreliable and subject to influence.
...which is why my eyes roll back into their sockets and I lose the will to live when I hear "audiophiles" banging on about how the only measuring instrument they need is their ears. As you say, and over very short timescales (tens of seconds), human hearing can detect very small differences, but that is a very far cry from the human ear being a measuring instrument in any meaningful sense of that word. Over longer timescales, all bets are off.
 

mskaye

mskaye
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...which is why my eyes roll back into their sockets and I lose the will to live when I hear "audiophiles" banging on about how the only measuring instrument they need is their ears. As you say, and over very short timescales (tens of seconds), human hearing can detect very small differences, but that is a very far cry from the human ear being a measuring instrument in any meaningful sense of that word. Over longer timescales, all bets are off.
I think you are taking that comment too literally. If one of us hears a component and it plays music and you want to buy it, you don't need to then send the component to a testing lab. Has anyone on this forum MEASURED what a KORE vs. KEEL actually does ? We are listening and feeling via our ears, hearts and brains to artistic performances captured by the recording process and reproduced...(see above.) To me at least, measurements only mean something if someone writes about how electrically unsafe/unstable an audio product is or if there will be REALLY SERIOUS flaws in reproducing what is recorded. I bought a speaker that eventually got a musical A but an engineering B- from Stereophile/John Atkinson. I never heard what he criticized. Didn't hear the issue with real world listening and it didnt make a difference to me or regret my purchase. I've also heard that my current tube cd player has less than stellar measurements. That same CD player has had people say it's the most analog like CD player they've ever heard. Ditto w my current amp which many people deride for a variety of things. It plays music beautifully and I like how it sounds. That is all that is important to me in the end.
 

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