Active crossover between sub/speakers - what might work better?

[jon]

I'm using a Yamaha DSP-A2 as a stereo amp, with Audio Physic Spark speakers and a REL sub driven from the low level output (Q200 IIRC - from that series, anyway). The amp gives the option of handling speaker/sub crossover itself - crossing over at around 90Hz. I've been surprised by some of the improvements this brings - sending the bass to the sub and not speakers means that I can listen to tracks with heavy bass/percussion, loud, while speakers + amp reproduce midrange beautifully without breaking a sweat. I've also been able to position sub so it's less affected by room issues.

On the downside, I think 90Hz is too high for the cross-over - I can occasionally recognise that bass is coming from the sub (although as this is placed quite centrally, it's less of an issue than it might be. I've considered getting an active crossover which lets me set a different crossover point, though I'm a bit confused by the options! I've also considered getting a replacement AV amp that lets me set a lower cross-over point (pre-HDMI/pre-3D models go for attractive prices secondhand, but again I'm struggling to work out what would be a good option). Any ideas?

In the longer term, I may end up moving somewhere which gives me the option of bigger speakers (or a 2nd sub). But not an option here - and I do really like the Sparks.

 

[SergeAuckland]

Removing the extreme bass from loudspeakers incapable of reproducing it is very sensible and leads to improvements in terms of power handling and reduced distortion. Whether 90Hz is too high depends on the capabilities of the smaller loudspeakers, but in the case of the Spark, I agree that it seems too high, 50-60Hz might be better, but erring on the upper side does help with power handling and distortion.

I can't help with choosing an AV amp as I have no experience of these.

S.

 

[Voice_Coil]

I'm using a Yamaha DSP-A2 as a stereo amp, with Audio Physic Spark speakers and a REL sub driven from the low level output (Q200 IIRC - from that series, anyway). The amp gives the option of handling speaker/sub crossover itself - crossing over at around 90Hz. I've been surprised by some of the improvements this brings - sending the bass to the sub and not speakers means that I can listen to tracks with heavy bass/percussion, loud, while speakers + amp reproduce midrange beautifully without breaking a sweat. I've also been able to position sub so it's less affected by room issues.On the downside, I think 90Hz is too high for the cross-over - I can occasionally recognise that bass is coming from the sub (although as this is placed quite centrally, it's less of an issue than it might be. I've considered getting an active crossover which lets me set a different crossover point, though I'm a bit confused by the options! I've also considered getting a replacement AV amp that lets me set a lower cross-over point (pre-HDMI/pre-3D models go for attractive prices secondhand, but again I'm struggling to work out what would be a good option). Any ideas?

In the longer term, I may end up moving somewhere which gives me the option of bigger speakers (or a 2nd sub). But not an option here - and I do really like the Sparks.

can you not just get an x/over , should be really cheap to remedy...come to think of it, does the sub not have a slope or x/over setting ?

most do.

 

[jon]

Thanks. The Sparks go down to a bit below 35Hz at a decent level - port's tuned to 50Hz - but I suspect crossing over a bit above 50Hz would be preferable: either the speakers or amp or both seem slightly less happy reproducing deep + loud sub-bass alongside e.g. delicate vocals and loud deep bass from the speakers seems to interact badly with the room. Only an issue when playing loud, and nothing you'd notice much listening to the speakers in isolation - but sending bass to the sub made a noticeable improvement. I can experiment when I get a crossover, anyway.

I was thinking about something like an antimode - or are there other active crossovers that come recommended? An AV amp might offer a cheap-ish solution, though it's a nightmare trying to figure out which does what!

Voice_Coil - you can tune how high the REL kicks in as a supplement to the speakers, which gives more deep bass but still leaves the bass all being sent to the speakers too. Hence wanting to deal with the crossover before the sub.

 

[jon]

An impatient bump Any recommended active crossovers or AV amps?

 

[malcesine]

I have an Arcam AVR350 and can adjust the crossover 40-130Hz to whatever sounds best as well as setting level, delay etc - I think it works superbly well

My fronts are Martin Logans and due to room issues my bass has to come from another location to the fronts so I crossover to a SVS sub at 80-90Hz - works well.

>100Hz my sub doesn't integrate so well tho'

I use 2 x separate power amps to biamp the fronts

1. SBTouch Analogue Out -> Amp -> Panel.

2. SBT -> Digital out to the AVR350 and then pre-out to a) woofer power amp and b) sub.

This means can adjust volume of panel and woofer and sub independently to each other - this is a great function to balance the Logans perfectly

A wee bit over complex perhaps but works superbly well for me having tried almost every other possible combination

Bottom line is a good AVR will give you so much flexibility (should you need it, in my case I have very bad room for bass) - and also can give you a nice HT set up too!

 

[David.D]

Hi jon.

I use a Yamaha DSP-AX763 av amp for my surround sound.

Link to the manual here:http://www.awe-europe.com/documents/dspax763_manual.pdf

Page 70 shows Bass Cross Over is selectable, 40,60,80,90,100,110,120,160,200hz.

I bought this model because it offered a couple of HDMI inputs and the facility to run 2 subs - I have a pair of Mission 704a with built in powered subs.

Might possibly be what you are looking for. I paid £150 for mine 2 years ago and they sell on eBay nowadays for anything from £75 - £135.

Dave

 

[jon]

Thanks. Interesting to know that the newer Yamahas allow different crossover levels. Will keep an eye out - ideal would be an old mid/high-end amp without the new formats for £100-150, I guess...

 

[Jazid]

What's the source? If computer audio then jRiver allows a fair degree of frequency tweaking and to my mind as impotantly a finely adjustable phase delay on (either the sub or) the upper frequencies.