Ageing speakers.

[MallyMad]

Noticed a lovely looking pair of Audio Note ANK B speakers in the ads which I quite fancy - however I'm a wee bit bothered about their lifespan.

Im pretty certain AN said they expected their speakers to last 15-20 years so if I buy these are they just gonna end up dead or is there an affordable way to spruce a bit of life into them?

Im well aware of ANs prices but hopefully there's an affordable solution.

Im also of the just buy it and see what happens opinion but there's time yet.

 

[AmDismal]

Often AN is cheap to maintain, it's the purchase that costs real money! And they are usually good for spare parts. The Snells, on which the ANs are based, are known for the driver surrounds perishing after 15-20 years, not sure about AN.

 

[themadlatvian]

Often AN is cheap to maintain, it's the purchase that costs real money! And they are usually good for spare parts. The Snells, on which the ANs are based, are known for the driver surrounds perishing after 15-20 years, not sure about AN.

However, said Snell drivers (or in my case the exact same Vifa models in my JPW AP2s) are very easy to re-foam with a kit for £20 off a bloke in the Netherlands on eBay.

 

[FiftyPlus]

I have been using the same speakers for 36 years now, and they were ex demo, and they just get better as I have upgraded. A pair of Atacama speaker stands part filled with sand proved a no brainer. I would have expected them to deteriorate a bit but they haven't - though I do not use them at room shaking volume as I suspect I would have neighbour and domestic problems. I read they were rated for up to 30w rms, but my current amp outputs 85w rms, and the real output is in the bass region. The conclusion I make it that providing the solder joints don't fail there is no reason why they should fail - or have I just been lucky?

 

[hearingisbelieving]

However, said Snell drivers (or in my case the exact same Vifa models in my JPW AP2s) are very easy to re-foam with a kit for £20 off a bloke in the Netherlands on eBay.

Exactly, no reason the speakers wont last a lifetime with the very occasional refoaming(as and when necessary) as well as replacing the capacitors in the crossovers as and when too.

Replacing the caps would also give you the option to upgrade too.

 

[Radioham]

Speakers fail for a variety of reasons.

Rubber rot/foam rot

Ferrorfluid drying out/going sticky or solid

Papercones fraying

Corrosion/rust on the magnet pole

Capacitors changing value

Glue failing

Cone coatings peeling off

Cone sag

Most of these changes are subtle and it would take a while to notice some of them.IMHO some of the newer designs seem destined to fail after just a few years, due to materials used and construction. Which of course pleases speaker manufacturers, as they would like to sell you a new pair when the warrenty expires.

Alan

Alan

 

[Tony_J]

The conclusion I make it that providing the solder joints don't fail there is no reason why they should fail - or have I just been lucky?

Depends on the material used for the voice coil...

If, as is fairly common, the voice coil is made from aluminium wire, there is a solder joint between the ends of the voice coil and the wire tails/braids that connect to the terminals on the driver. Soldering copper to aluminium is tricky in the first place, and needs a particular solder alloy and a special acid flux so getting it right in the first place is an issue. However, as aluminium is highly reactive, it tends to corrode at the junction with another metal, so this solder joint, or more particularly, the bit of ally joining to it, can be prone to failure over time, particularly so if it isn't well sealed against moisture and air. This is a typical failure mode for Lowther drivers with ally voice-coils; it is retrievable if you have the right solder/flux; I have succeeded in repairing two drivers that had open-circuit voice coils because of corrosion, but how long they will last is another question!

Which is a long winded way of saying, if you have ally voice coils in your drivers, and they are still intact after 36 years, then you have been lucky!

 

[MallyMad]

What sort of upgrades are available and at what sort of price? Would I have to return them to AN to get the work done? Im liking the sound of this.

 

[Tel]

I have been using the same speakers for 36 years now, and they were ex demo, and they just get better as I have upgraded. A pair of Atacama speaker stands part filled with sand proved a no brainer. I would have expected them to deteriorate a bit but they haven't - though I do not use them at room shaking volume as I suspect I would have neighbour and domestic problems. I read they were rated for up to 30w rms, but my current amp outputs 85w rms, and the real output is in the bass region. The conclusion I make it that providing the solder joints don't fail there is no reason why they should fail - or have I just been lucky?

If you listen at low levels I doubt your amp actually delivers an output greater than 10 Amps and for 90% of the time probably less than 1 amp

 

[hearingisbelieving]

What sort of upgrades are available and at what sort of price? Would I have to return them to AN to get the work done? Im liking the sound of this.

Chris if you are interested in retaining any kind of resale value then returning them to Audio Note is the best way to go. Martin Grennal at AN is a great guy to deal with and in my dealings with them they have always been very helpful and their pricing very fair.

If however, you are handy with a soldering iron and dont care about resale value then there is all sorts of fun you can have. Not sure what kind of caps these speakers would have in them so maybe a pic of the crossover would help us to advise you properly. Probably just be a case of replacing the caps - this will always yield the best bang-for-buck improvement. That said, check what wire is used inside the speaker as that could also be a chnace for an upgrade...

 

[MallyMad]

No technical skill whatsoever due to hands like shovels Im afraid. No interest in the resale value but these would be passed onto a pro to have the work done if it was going to be cost effective. Working on posting up pics from my ipad at the moment with varying degrees of success.

 

[anubisgrau]

When I owned AN-Js I refoamed with a kit I bought from AN directly. It was surprisingly cheap, can't remember exactly but I think in a range of 40 euros shipping included. These were apparently a Vifa (or SEAS?) original, however you can buy absolutely similar no name for about a half of that price too.

Any decent speaker service can do it, for example

http://www.audioloudspeakers.co.uk/boultons.shtml

 

[RaymondLeggs]

I bought a pair of 30 year old speakers last year and I think they will be here at least 20 more years with no problem, but of course they have cloth surrounds

I do think they may need recapping!

 

[MallyMad]

Many thanks everyone. That's quite a lot to go on. What about prices? Recapping? I really like the idea of bringing new life into something like these.

 

[hearingisbelieving]

Many thanks everyone. That's quite a lot to go on. What about prices? Recapping? I really like the idea of bringing new life into something like these.

Chris in terms of pricing it is very hard to say - it depends on the number and value(capacitance) of the caps used in the crossover. Also the quality of caps used originally which you will therefore have to better. It would be a huge help to see a pic of the crossvers.

In terms of prices for replacement caps you can spend anything from pennies to hundreds of pounds per cap: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html

This chap has spent a lot of time and money reviewing many caps so this is worth a read: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

[Chumpy]

Fine advice, it seems.

 

[anubisgrau]

even with the oldest ANs you will still have a plenty of life in their caps, no need to think about it. i think mine Js were from something like mid-90s and there were no signs of a need for recap.

 

[hearingisbelieving]

even with the oldest ANs you will still have a plenty of life in their caps, no need to think about it. i think mine Js were from something like mid-90s and there were no signs of a need for recap.

Hmm, no signs of needing a recap doesn't mean they don't need a recap or couldn't be improved upon by replacing the stock caps with some new ones. You don't even have to spend silly money. When I first got my Oto it had AN PIO caps as coupling caps, I changed these for some Ansar Supersound polyprops(£3) and received a huge improvement in sound. My Oto was built in 97 for what its worth - though the caps would be subject to more heat in my Oto obviously...