Am I deluded, is this wasted on me..?

henkuk

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Jan 12, 2012
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Henk
Here's a thought...

I am sitting in my office/man cave which is about half the size of a prison cell be it with a better view and maybe acoustics.

In this cell, I have a Dual CS5000 turntable, Toshiba SB-500 integrated amp and a pair of refoamed AR-7's.

Sit here many a night, playing everything from Jimi Hendrix to Steely Dan to Tchaikovsky to Joni Mitchell to Dexter Gordon, pretty wild variety.

And I love the system, love the sound of AR-7's (30 quid + a refoaming kit of 14 quid), Toshiba amp was 60 quid, CS5000 128 quid.

Speaker wire from Maplin and away I am...

Am I wasting my money on more high end stuff? Have I go deaf? Or do I lack sophistication?

I just love music, even on this "eBay special" system..

Do we sometimes get too lost in persuing a dream as opposed to just playing music?

 

hermit

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May 9, 2013
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Or do I lack sophistication?
this made me smile

after all, we British audiophiles are known world-wide for our sophisticated taste, distinguished appearance and impeccable breeding

 

Tel

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Kevin
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If the system does everything you want then it is hi end (whatever that means) enough for you.

Your opinion is the only one that matters.

 

henkuk

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Jan 12, 2012
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Glad I amused you...

I kinda meant the following:

I sometimes buy Hifi News or Hifi choice just to see what the latest and greatest is. I know, I shouldn't really.... the sheer bullshit bingo....

When I see reviews for a turntable that costs upwards of 30k to just have a spinning platter, I think, wow, in finished state this must be around 50k, then an amp, speakers etc. To stay in the same league and justifying that spent on a turntable you must have another 50 sunk into each of the following components....

Would my ears be good enough? I am just not of the right breeding to hear that? Who does? And are they listening to music in the same way as I do?

Seeing interconnects that cost over 1k to then read they make day/night difference over another of 800 quid, well sorry, one of the 2 sets is seriously fucked up in design...

Most of this stuff is well beyond the law of diminishing returns.

I heard a difference and an improvement when changing from the Quad 99 to the 909.

I am willing to believe that changing up in similar magnitude will again change the sound (although that is not always better).

I believe that a 1.5k cart is better then my run of the mill Goldring 1012 with it's 1042 stylus. But a 10k cart better then a 5k cart?

I rather buy music...

 

tkimages

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Jun 14, 2006
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If the system does everything you want then it is hi end (whatever that means) enough for you.Your opinion is the only one that matters.
Absolutely.

To satisfy your curiosity, you could try other equipment. If you prefer it, keep it, if you don't, move it on.

 

Bourney

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I think that as soon as expectation and guilt leave the equation some folk can enjoy the tunes more or they don't actually need a high resolution, wide bandwidth set up to get full enjoyment from the music they love. Although, I've heard many an expensive system that lacked the 'groove' and fluency of a well matched cheap / old set up.

 

henkuk

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Jan 12, 2012
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I guess it's some of the bullshit and arrogance that grates on me.

Being Dutch, I am fairly straight down the line. We call a spade a spade...

I recently went to see a bunch of properties of which a couple were marketed by the agent as exclusive, detached executive homes. The estate agent guy is actually a fairly laid back person with a decent sense of humour. Viewing the property I remarked on the fact that the whole side wall of house 1 was stuck the whole side wall of house 2 and said to the guy, for fuck sake mate, how are you passing this off as a detached property? He had a wry smile and said, well I suppose you could call them link detached... with a hopeful tone...

Linked my arse I said...it's a bloody semi, change your ad...

I had an experience at a hifi store in Surrey 4 yrs back looking for new floorstanders. In the weekend I resemble either a homeless or Albanian "off the back of the lorry" refugee. The treatment I got was shit and the guy managed to tell me that I need to spent at least 2k on a pair of speakers, anything below that is crap... And oh, you don't appear to be someone who might have the funds.

Never mind he was about 12 and probably only heard 128bitrate MP3's on his crap phone...

Bullshit reigns in a marketing driven world...

 

Tel

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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I believe that a 1.5k cart is better then my run of the mill Goldring 1012 with it's 1042 stylus. But a 10k cart better then a 5k cart?
Yes it is,

The best cart I have ever heard cost £12K and it was by a large margin better than anything else I have heard, and I have heard a lot of hi end carts.

The best speakers I have ever heard cost £500K and they were far and away the best I have ever heard.

I can't afford either but I don't rubbish them, I admire people who go out to design and build the best they possibly can, hopefully the lessons they learn trickle down and benefit everyone.

I am glad there is fantastic stuff out there better than I can afford, at least I get a chance to buy stuff second hand which would never have been manufactured if I had your 'everything I can't afford is bullshit' attitude.

We all cut our cloth to what we can afford but it doesn't always mean that there isn't something better.

 
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pmac

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I am glad there is fantastic stuff out there better than I can afford, at least I get a chance to buy stuff second hand which would never have been manufactured if I had your 'everything I can't afford is bullshit' attitude.

We all cut our cloth to what we can afford but it doesn't always mean that there isn't something better.
Twas ever thus :roll:

 

henkuk

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I am not rubbishing anyone or any particular price level.

If you would care to read between the lines, I am actually questioning my own motivations and subsequent investments.

If you can hear AND appreciate a difference between a 5k and a 10k, power to you.

I am not in the slightest jealous, honestly, good for you.

And in case you are wondering, I could afford to sink a lot more money in this hobby then people buy new cars for...

For me that is not the point which I guess was the reason for my orignal post.

Unexpectedly, I find myself sitting here really enjoying a system that costs less then my wife's cheapest pair of jeans. And she chucks those away after 2 yrs....

So I am questioning myself, particularly since I appear to have commited myself to buying a new turntable once we have moved home and I will audition the Palmer.

This is not meant to upset, if it does, read again. This is meant to upset me and question my spending behaviors and motivations.

I am still learning in this hobby for which I had little time in the past due to living in different places and lugging my stuff around was not an option.

 

rabski

Everything in moderation
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  1. No
I have heard some expensive systems sound crap and I have heard some cheap systems sound superb.

However, the very best system I have ever heard cost more than my house. Plus a space shuttle.

As always, synergy is king. As long as you put together things that work well together, you can assemble a fantastic sounding system for beer money.

However, it won't sound as good as the very best you could put together on an unlimited budget.

Law of diminishing returns, of course. To fund an investment I'm in the middle of losing a fairly costly high-end setup and I'm replacing it with bits that sound amazingly good. However, I'm not deluded. Good though it sounds, it doesn't sound as good as what I had.

I'm not complaining, but I'm not dumb either. Paired correctly, a £50 pair of speakers can sound remarkably good. I'm sorry though, against a pair of Vox Olympians, they won't be quite as good.

Live with what you have and enjoy it. I'm currently enjoying digital replay through a front end that cost me about a tenth of the previous one, and it's not ten times worse. Nevertheless, I'd be insane to suggest it's as good. It's more than adequate, but I know what can be done, and this doesn't do it.

 

Frizzy brizzy

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Are you just not saying you have a musical system in your office, and like many of us it's age does not stop it being good at its job.

Isnt this spiel just saying poor me I can afford whatever I want but can't find a way to justify its cost because its pleasure to cash ratio is not as good,

 

henkuk

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Jan 12, 2012
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Enjoying it I certainly am...

To the extent that the downstairs system gets little use right now...

Synergy is probably part of it. In my case as I just dumpster dived, so to say and used what came up.

I also frequent Audiokarma and there the prevailing tone is that if it's not at least 30 yrs old it can't be much good.

What I am after is understanding where and how the differences in price translate into different performance.

In other words, how come I really enjoy my 200 quid set up as much as I enjoy my 3 or 4k (whatever it is) system?

I am looking at more useful ways to find this out other then reading some mag that every month cries it found the new holy grail and what we had in the past was no good. I find some of the marketing practices shady to say the least...

Although I have bought those bamboo wooden blocks to lift the cables to my AR-7's...

Maybe that did the trick....

 

Tel

Wammer
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Henk,

As I said in my original post it is only your opinion that matters when it comes to your system.

When it comes to other peoples systems and what they consider reasonable their opinion is the only one that is really valid,

But I guarantee you would hear a difference between £5K and £10K carts if you heard them. Whether you want to pay that is entirely up to you, the ability to enjoy musical playback is not directly proportional to the cost of the system, it is easy to get 80% of the way there, and can be very rewarding, but it doesn't mean that improvements aren't possible.

Why do you want to buy a Palmer, isn't the Project perfectly good enough?

Your question in the OP was 'Do we sometimes get too lost in persuing a dream as opposed to just playing music?' and it is a good question to ask, but I never wanted to 'just play music' I wanted the experience of playing music at home to be the best it could be within my own personal understanding of acceptable cost. So I strive for the best that I can afford.

This means I make subjective choices about what is best. I am now broadly happy with my system and haven't changed anything for a while, but it took me awhile to get to this point, all along that journey I knew what I was aiming for, but this did not mean that I didn't enjoy the system that I had at the time.

I have been to many wammer's houses and heard loads of systems that I would be very happy to own, some cost more, some cost less than mine. I was at a fellow wammer's house last night, and although some of the conversation was about equipment, most of the talk was about music, in fact there were long periods of no conversation at all as we listened to a few new albums.

Any thread which tries to link cost with enjoyment is doomed I am afraid! :)

Get to a few bakeoffs and listen to some different kit, the social side of this forum is superb and should be experienced.

 

Samantha

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I think sometimes expectation bias can work in the favour of small and inexpensive kit.

You can find yourself enjoying it and thinking "This shouldn't sound THIS good"

Also, as has been said - price does not necessarily mean better. We all like a different sound. I favour a very natural presentation. Someone after more of a 'club' sound may find that dull.

We all find what works for us, and if we can afford it and it is worth the cost to us - irrelevant what others think.

I can enjoy a tune on my cheap OEM radio in the car. Doesn't mean I don't want my vastly more expensive system at home. I enjoy both in a different way. But it is a futile and pointless exercise trying to define what is value sound-per-pound. If worth it to the buyer, and they get pleasure - job sorted. Life is too short to worry and live denying pleasures.

- - - Updated - - -

Any thread which tries to link cost with enjoyment is doomed I am afraid! :)

Get to a few bakeoffs and listen to some different kit, the social side of this forum is superb and should be experienced.
:^

 

henkuk

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Jan 12, 2012
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Henk
Why do you want to buy a Palmer, isn't the Project perfectly good enough?

Kevin, that is a most excellent point and exactly what I am trying to find out for myself.

I want to be a believer and am to a certain degree.

Just trying to find out what is real and what is not so real.

Probably bake-off's are the right thing to do to find out more and learn.

I have never really been exposed to all this stuff, just love music.

I need to learn....

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, the Palmer is dictated by the wife who is deaf as a post.

She loves shiny things though....

 

rabski

Everything in moderation
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  1. No
The best system I have ever heard is Definitive Audio's Kondo into the Vox Olympians. Simply stunning.

Of course, it isn't 1000 times better than a system that costs 1000 times less, but that's a circular argument.

If you're saying a relatively cheap system can sound surprisingly good, then I absolutely agree. If you're saying a more expensive one doesn't necessarily sound better then I also agree. However, generally, it will.

That's life.

Of course, having said that, price isn't everything. I have heard some £10,000 pieces of equipment that I wouldn't use as doorstops, and similarly some £100 bits that blow the socks off people. In general though, you do get what you pay for.

 
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hermit

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Paul
You might get more fun out of having a revolving door policy on your office system and leaving your main system pretty much as it is now. The one thing you have learned is that you dont need an expensive system to get enjoyment out of it.

Have fun and enjoy the tunes

 
M

MJ.

Guest
I feel we'll qualified to comment on this thread.

My hi-fi purchases (like many) are directly linked to my expendable income. When I have little spare income I manage to convince myself that my current £500 system sounds very nearly as good as my previous £5000 system but of course it doesn't.

I am currently in the £1-200 per component range and have put together a pretty good 'budget' (very important word that) system that I am pleased with. Will I be as pleased with it when my finances improve ? Not a chance.

And, I am one of those who puts music before kit; but that doesn't mean I don't want to get the most enjoyment out of it.

I often think that people who resent not having the funds to buy good kit say music is most important SOLELY because they don't have an expensive system. For me, the music IS most important but to do it full justice you do need the best system you can afford.

 

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