Amp with HT/AV Bypass Suggestions?

Witterings

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Thinking about possibly changing my amp, I'm looking in the £2000 / 2500 price range, I do need HT/AV Bypass and would like at least 1 digital input with a decent onboard DAC.
It'll be running ProAc D20R's in a 16 x 26ft room I play my music quietly quite a lot so something good at driving the speakers at low volume preferred and do like.

Ones I've been looking at:

Rega Elicit Mk5 .... not overly powerful
Marantz Model 40n .... least powerful would it be enough
Rotel RA-1592MkII ... don't know a lot about Rotel
Nad C399 ... Really appealed until I saw a comment somewhere saying Nad stuff lasts 6 months, don't know how true that is?

Was also thinking 2nd hand Hegel H190 and saw a comment saying they're quite "clinical".

Interested to hear thoughts on any of the above or any other suggestions.
 

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What amp do you have currently?
You have quite a big room and not the most efficient speakers.
Secondhand will give you more scope but you might have to be patient waiting for the right unit to be available.

An Exposure 3510 has AV bypass but you would need the dac module which would take the price slightly over £2.5k unless you can get a good deal.
I home demoed the previous 3010SD2 version against the Rega Elicit R and felt the Exposure had more control (but I am in a smaller room with more efficient speakers).
 

simon g

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Lyngdorf 1120
This should be a definite contender along with an end of line bargain TDAi2170. They both offer Room Perfect, which is easy to set up and allows you to address any speaker/room issues. This can easily be bypassed if not required.

These amps are not like Hypex and the like. They are essentially power DACs; the only digital to analogue conversion is just before the speaker outputs.

The 1120 is also a streamer (not the 2170 though)and Roon end point. You may not be 'into' streaming at present, but the 1120 would allow you to dabble and see what you think.
 
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Witterings

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Thanks for the replies so far, rather than quoting each individual one.

This may well be my lack of knowledge but I thought to a degree the more powerful the amp the more control they'll have over the speakers / bass but the Lyngdorf 1120 are 2 x 60 w @ 8 ohms ... is that enough for the speakers / size of room?
Please do educate me if I'm wrong!

I had a look at the TDAi2170 as well and I'm not sure if that has HT/AV Bypass, it's not in this list ..... although it may not include every model that does listed in there

http://www.audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-processor-input
I took a brief look at the Exposure 3510, it's not a name I'd heard of before and certainly the DAC module would take the price up quite a bit.
 

ChemMan

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The Hegel 190 is certainly not clinical. I had one on demo for more than a week, and if anything it sounds a bit dark, this was in comparison to my old MA252 hybrid.

"NAD stuff breaking after 6 months," I'd take that with a grain of salt. There is always a lemon from time to time with any brand. I'm sitting on a Node2 made by NAD under the Blusound label and it's worked perfectly well for going on five years. I see second hand NADs from 10 years ago regularly.

I heard a Gato awhile back (250W) and it sounds very nice indeed, in fact, I slightly preferred it over the more expensive NADM33. The Arcam SA30(125W) is a possibility in the price range. I've seen used Hegel 390s (250W)(a brilliant amp) on the continent going for €3K. All these come with internal DAC and some with streamer.

Also, remember, all watts are not created equal. My old Arcam sitting here is 125W/per channel. My VTL tube amp is just 60, but it can get just as loud and sounds better at lower volumes.
 

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This may well be my lack of knowledge but I thought to a degree the more powerful the amp the more control they'll have over the speakers / bass but the Lyngdorf 1120 are 2 x 60 w @ 8 ohms ... is that enough for the speakers / size of room?
Please do educate me if I'm wrong!
Generally you are correct, but there is more to it.
If you take a look at i35 versus 3510 thread, a comparison between amps rated @ 110wpc and @ 150wpc.
 

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I took a brief look at the Exposure 3510, it's not a name I'd heard of before and certainly the DAC module would take the price up quite a bit.
If you must have an integrated dac - fair enough, but there is another lens.
I have a dac module fitted to my amp (Exposure 3010) but it came as part of the offer (I did not choose it specifically).
Its fine, but when I start considering upgrading the dac, or CDP or streamer, or any combination, one of the thoughts I have is if I buy something with a dac, will it be better than what I have? and if it is better, my current dac will be wasted (be difficult to remove it and sell it easily).
So depending on your circumstances, a separate dac could be a better longer term option?
 

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From personal experience, I'd add the Gato DIA-250S to the shortlist. I think that should match with your speakers, I'd expect a sound that was fundamentally neutral. Plenty powerful enough for your speakers, lots of grip and drive but without an excessively forward or harsh character. Onboard DAC is very decent if not earth-shattering, and it has a home theatre bypass function. A new one is well within your budget, possibly even the more powerful DIA-400S version if you look for used. There's also the optional NPM streaming module if that's your bag. If the previous owner has registered it with Gato it may have the balance of a 5 year warranty too although I doubt it will be needed, the build is excellent.

I had the Hegel 190 at home on demo last year against three other amps of varying flavours. It is reckoned to be the most upbeat and lively of the range. Personally I found it a bit "meh" - maybe it just wasn't happy driving a difficult load but I didn't warm to it.
 

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I had the Hegel 190 at home on demo last year against three other amps of varying flavours. It is reckoned to be the most upbeat and lively of the range. Personally I found it a bit "meh" - maybe it just wasn't happy driving a difficult load but I didn't warm to it.
150 WPC into 8 ohms and 240 WPC into 4. What speakers were you driving?
 

simon g

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Thanks for the replies so far, rather than quoting each individual one.

This may well be my lack of knowledge but I thought to a degree the more powerful the amp the more control they'll have over the speakers / bass but the Lyngdorf 1120 are 2 x 60 w @ 8 ohms ... is that enough for the speakers / size of room?
Please do educate me if I'm wrong!

I had a look at the TDAi2170 as well and I'm not sure if that has HT/AV Bypass, it's not in this list ..... although it may not include every model that does listed in there

[URL]http://www.audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-processor-input[/URL]

I took a brief look at the Exposure 3510, it's not a name I'd heard of before and certainly the DAC module would take the price up quite a bit.
The TDAi2170 definitely offers selectable HT bypass.

Never pay much attention to 'lists' like this and the like. Always go to the manufacturer's web site and download the manual for the definitive info on any aspect of functionality, etc. There's an awful lot of dross on the 'net as doubtless you're aware (y)
 

Witterings

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The TDAi2170 definitely offers selectable HT bypass.

Never pay much attention to 'lists' like this and the like. Always go to the manufacturer's web site and download the manual for the definitive info on any aspect of functionality, etc. There's an awful lot of dross on the 'net as doubtless you're aware (y)

There was one available this morning for £2k but it's now gone :cry:
 

Jules_S

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150 WPC into 8 ohms and 240 WPC into 4. What speakers were you driving?
Martin Logan Summits. Despite the semi-powered topology they like to be driven by an amp with plenty of grunt, and one that's happy and stable into a reactive load that reaches sub-ohm at 20KHz. Maybe it wasn't happy. Maybe I just don't like Hegel, I dunno, it just didn't light my fire I'm afraid.
 
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MartinC

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Bear in mind that a simple amplifier power rating doesn't distinguish between output voltage and current capability, plus you need a distortion figure as well for it to really mean anything.
 

Jules_S

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I just used my ears. They told me that the combination wasn't right for me. Others may find different of course.
 
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MartinC

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I just used my ears. They told me that the combination wasn't right for me. Others may find different of course.
My post was to suggest why this might be despite power figures suggesting there shouldn't be any issue :).
 
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Jezzer

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Martin Logan Summits. Despite the semi-powered topology they like to be driven by an amp with plenty of grunt, and one that's happy and stable into a reactive load that reaches sub-ohm at 20KHz. Maybe it wasn't happy. Maybe I just don't like Hegel, I dunno, it just didn't light my fire I'm afraid.
I was actually thinking Apogees or similar!
 

Jules_S

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My post was to suggest why this might be despite power figures suggesting there shouldn't be any issue :).
Ah, apologies, I may have misunderstood your comment. I didn't think the amp was running out of steam per se (I didn't really run it that hard). Perhaps to illustrate what I was meaning, I didn't want to carry on listening to music with the Hegel in my system. It didn't sound awful by any means, there were no glaring issues apart from not being the most dynamic sound. The system just sounded a bit... soft and uninvolving. For the money, I didn't rate it. Had I been using "normal" speakers, i.e. something that doesn't have an impedance curve that looks like a rollercoaster, it would probably have performed much better

I realise that I may be putting a bit of a negative spin on Hegel for our OP, that wasn't necessarily my intention. It was just to pass on my little bit of experience with the model in question. The D20R is a little low on the sensitivity but not drastically so, and of far more benign impedance than the MLs so the Hegel may do better with them.
 

Pressure

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Bear in mind that a simple amplifier power rating doesn't distinguish between output voltage and current capability, plus you need a distortion figure as well for it to really mean anything.
Would you mind expanding on this, if it hasn’t been done to death elsewhere?

I vaguely understand that “more current is good” and probably more important than watt ratings. I don’t know anything about output voltage. And I don’t know how they relate to different types of sound. Is there a book I need to read?!
 

ian964

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I had a similar need, ended up with a second hand Plinius Hiato amp and a separate Audiolab M-DAC+. The Plinius should drive anything - 300WPC and 50A peak current - and has HT bypass, which was the main reason for buying it. All came to just over 2.5K
 

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