Audio note zero dac better than my quad cdp2 dac?

[Philv]

Hi

as per the title, is the audionote dac zero going to improve/change things over the dac in my cdp2?

Or will any changes be so subtle hat my old ears wouldnt hear?

cheers

 

[Purite Audio]

You need to borrow one and compare them in your system,

Keith.

 

[hearingisbelieving]

It will definitely change things and I would think quite significantly so too. I actually prefer its presentation to my Chord DAC64 MkII which is a very expensive and well respected DAC in its own right.

I would be surprised if you cant detect any difference - except if you are deaf.

 

[Purite Audio]

The two dacs could hardly be more different , NOS with a valve output compared to a contemporary over sampler .

Keith.

 

[Philv]

Ok - so that leads to he next question -

how does an audio note dac zero sound?

 

[Purite Audio]

Technically a characteristic of NOS designs is that they roll off treble playing 44.1, the valve output will add a bit of 'colour' that's why you need to compare them in your own system.

Keith.

 

[hermit]

The original AN Dac zero was the one dac in the AN range that is not NOS - http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/reviews/ANote.pdf

Not sure about later models

 

[hermit]

Technically a characteristic of NOS designs is that they roll off treble playing 44.1, the valve output will add a bit of 'colour' that's why you need to compare them in your own system.Keith.

Dacs certainly do sound different, NOS dac suffer from treble droop when playing 16/ 44.1,valve output stages will add distortion ,those designs will most ddefinitely sound different to an oversampling design.Keith.

Keith, you regularly post this type of comment re valve dacs. Please explain why you believe that the valve output adds colour or distortion? Why can't it be as neutral as any other type of output stage?

Also, I don't really hear any problem with rolled off treble in any of the NOS dacs I have lived with. According to the review I linked to above my dac begins to roll off very gently from around 10kHz and is about 4–5dB down at 20kHz. It may be a problem for my cats or for teenage ears but at my age it is nothing to be concerned about.

 

[rabski]

Keith and Paul.

NOS DACs from the figures I have seen do not notably roll off the top end.

They do process signals in a different way to over-sampling and filtering DACs.

Tube DACs Paul do add some distortion. However, as always in hi-fi it is not whether something adds distortion, but rather the type of distortion that matters. Simple overall distortion is one thing. Second or third harmonic distortion is something entirely different to the ears of the listener, especially if present at extremely small levels.

I'm perfectly happy with my tube pre and my non-filtering DAC adding some distortion. Whether it is significant enough to affect the output at audible frequencies is another matter entirely. And if it does, whether is adds or subtracts from the listening experience is again another matter.

Keith. Apologies, but everything you sell distorts the signal from the original performance to some degree. This is by no means always a bad thing and often the distortion in a reproduced signal actually benefits by adding some ambience to the eventual result.

Live with it.

None of this is ever the live performance. Anything that manages to provide some of the 'feel' of the original is a result. Distorted or not.

 

[Purite Audio]

I am not familiar with the AN designs , these are the Stereophile measurements from a Zanden.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/zanden-5000-mkivsignature-da-converter-2000-premium-cd-transport-measurements

Keith.

 

[tonerei]

Keoth that review and test is seven years ago I personally wouldn't hang my hat on measurements on any hifi product. Just listen to it and to be fair that is what you suggest but your mind seems to be made up by 'the test' results. Be very honest here I have never looked at the measurements of any hifi product before buying it Did my best to either hear it or read as much about it to get a variety of opinions preferably buyers and take my chances from there.

Phil from any reading or info I have ever gleaned about audionote they would definitely be worth trying to get a listen to. Unfortunately I only have a perception of what they might sound like but I very much suspect I would like it. The kit dacs they produce might be worth investigating. Not sure how much skill you need to build maybe somebody has done it here and might comment?

 

[rmsshipbroker]

I am not familiar with the AN designs , these are the Stereophile measurements from a Zanden.http://www.stereophile.com/content/zanden-5000-mkivsignature-da-converter-2000-premium-cd-transport-measurements

Keith.

That link goes straight to the testing of a faulty unit, try this one:-

http://www.stereophile.com/content/zanden-5000-mkivsignature-da-converter-2000-premium-cd-transport-second-sample-measurements

 

[hermit]

Tube DACs Paul do add some distortion. However, as always in hi-fi it is not whether something adds distortion, but rather the type of distortion that matters. Simple overall distortion is one thing. Second or third harmonic distortion is something entirely different to the ears of the listener, especially if present at extremely small levels.

I'm perfectly happy with my tube pre and my non-filtering DAC adding some distortion. Whether it is significant enough to affect the output at audible frequencies is another matter entirely. And if it does, whether is adds or subtracts from the listening experience is again another matter.

Thanks for that Richard. Very helpful.

I am not familiar with the AN designs , these are the Stereophile measurements from a Zanden.http://www.stereophile.com/content/zanden-5000-mkivsignature-da-converter-2000-premium-cd-transport-measurements

Keith.

Interesting example you have chosen. John Atkinson says "it is the worst-measuring digital product I have encountered. Yet Michael Fremer was totally bowled over by its sound. Assuming Mikey is not deaf—and I have taken part in enough listening sessions with him to know that that is not the case—what the heck is going on with the Zanden pair? "

I think this is at the heart of the issue - measurements may not tell the whole story. Over-sampling dacs may measure better but, nonetheless, some people prefer NOS dacs claiming a more analogue sound free from digital glare or harshness.

I think OS or NOS is a matter of personal preference and as you rightly say Keith it is best to audition in the context of your own system. My problem is that anyone reading your frequent comments about rolled off treble and added distortion may conclude that NOS valve dacs are inherently inferior and I don't believe that is necessarily the case. I am sure there are good and bad examples of both.

 

[rmsshipbroker]

I think this is at the heart of the issue - measurements may not tell the whole story. Over-sampling dacs may measure better but, nonetheless, some people prefer NOS dacs claiming a more analogue sound free from digital glare or harshness.

I think OS or NOS is a matter of personal preference and as you rightly say Keith it is best to audition in the context of your own system. My problem is that anyone reading your frequent comments about rolled off treble and added distortion may conclude that NOS valve dacs are inherently inferior and I don't believe that is necessarily the case. I am sure there are good and bad examples of both.

+1 :^

 

[hearingisbelieving]

The two dacs could hardly be more different , NOS with a valve output compared to a contemporary over sampler .Keith.

What's your point though Keith?

The onboard DAC in the Quad is an oversampler, like my Chord and actually the AN DAC Zero (the original one - which is the one I was talking about) is not NOS so I think its a pretty relevant post.

 

[Purite Audio]

My apologies I assumed ,wrongly ( it appears) that all AN dacs were NOS, I didn't think PQ was a fan of oversampling.

Keith.

 

[ERICLIMPIT]

Hias per the title, is the audionote dac zero going to improve/change things over the dac in my cdp2?

Or will any changes be so subtle hat my old ears wouldnt hear?

cheers

The current AN zero dac 0.1x is a non oversampling dac with no digital filtering and has a 6111WA triode output stage, and gives a hugely musical sound with lots of detail and energy, and gives a good flavour of what their mega expensive dacs can do. I would think the difference would be far greater than you might imagine, and once heard I'm sure you will be converted (if you pardon the pun!) to this wonderful little box.

 

[rmsshipbroker]

The current AN zero dac 0.1x is a non oversampling dac with no digital filtering and has a 6111WA triode output stage, and gives a hugely musical sound with lots of detail and energy, and gives a good flavour of what their mega expensive dacs can do. I would think the difference would be far greater than you might imagine, and once heard I'm sure you will be converted (if you pardon the pun!) to this wonderful little box.

Hi Roger, although I agree with every word said there, it is important to differentiate between the DAC Zero and the 0.1x.

They are very different animals with the Zero being below the 0.1x in the range. :^

 

[hearingisbelieving]

Hi Roger, although I agree with every word said there, it is important to differentiate between the DAC Zero and the 0.1x.They are very different animals with the Zero being below the 0.1x in the range. :^

So what you are saying is 0 is < 0.1?

Thank you Captain Obvious:roll: